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#1 nikki

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 03:34 PM

hiya,

some questions :roflmao:

Are all pritzlaff horses SE's?

Is John Doyle considered se or crabbet x egyptian?

Many Thanks Nikki

#2 Seglavi

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 03:51 PM

Hi Nikki,
No, sorry, but not all the Pritzlaff horses qualify as Pyramid straight Egyptian. The Pritzlaff horses like John Doyle that have a line to the mare Rabanna, are not accepted. They are however Al Khamsa and Asil. This includes also, all the Doyle Egyptian horses. I suppose one could consider them Crabbet/Egyptian. Right now there are more Pritzlaff horses with Rabanna than there are those who descend in all lines from his original Egyptian imports. They are in grave danger of dying out as a group. Three outside SE stallions were added to the breeding group as the years went by. They were Faarad, straight Babson, Bel Gordas, Babson/Sirecho, and Ansata El Salim, Babson/*Ansata. These blends add a few numbers to the overall herd but if they are to be preserved in SE, we need to encourage their breeding among preservationists. This group of horses brings so much to the SE herd, great athletes, excellent substance and legs and hooves, height and deep heart girth. The mares have deep bodies and tip top legs and many have been used with other SE groups and are in danger of becoming all "blends".
The Rabanna group is better off I think as far as numbers go. Much of the reason for that is their success as endurance horses and the devotion of several preservation breeders here in the states. These are fantastic horses for horsemen who want good mounts and performance horses.
Pam Studebaker
Saqlawiyat Arabians
Trotwood, Ohio, USA

#3 Ray

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 03:54 PM

Hi Nikki,

It depends on who replies, as to the answers you will get. :roflmao:

#4 anitae

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 05:22 PM

Nikki, Pam gave you a great answer. I would add that some people call the Pritzlaff horses that have Rabanna "Pritzlaff/Blunt" rather than Pritzlaff/Crabbet because, at least in the States, most people equate Crabbet with Lady Wentworth, and Rabanna descends from pre-Wentworth days.

Pam knows these bloodlines very well and is also correct that the Pritzlaff horses that descend only from his SE (per Pyramid Society) horses are almost gone -- last count was fewer than 20. Kelly Gobla tried to sell a few last year and had difficulty finding buyers. As I recall, most have gone into non-breeding homes (at least one stallion was gelded). Among the Pritzlaff's with Rabanna, Crockett Dumas is one of the last major breeders. The Johnsons (Michigan) bred some and raced them successfully but are both deceased. Sheila Harmon, who focused on Pritzlaff blood (w/ and w/out Rabanna, w/ and w/out other horses as Pam described) has bred more than 50 over the past 30 years. She is having to sell off all her horses because of a divorce and foreclosure on her farm. As Pam said, these are very athletic horses, many with successful endurance careers.

Sheila has about a dozen horses left to place (www.destinyarabians.com) for anyone who isn't limited to having a Pyramid Society - defined SE.

Anita

#5 nikki

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 12:56 PM

thanks for clearing that up for me. :th_cool:

There some horses with Pritzlaff breeding in the uk

kildalton danah, kildalton mona, kildalton silhouette

#6 Seglavi

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 03:56 PM

Nikki, I was unable to locate any of the three horses you mentioned on our AHA DataSource list or on the Al Khamsa Roster. These horses must have been born outside North America and never registered here. However the prefix Kildalton is associated with some of the horses from Vincent Melzac's breeding operation here in West Virginia. His horses were a mixture of Doyle and Pritzlaff and were dispersed after he died, some going to Ireland. They should be excellent Asil horses, probably quite Crabbet in appearance and if you could get one, I would recommend you do it as quickly as possible. We visited the Doyle ranch in August last year and saw a couple Doyle/Pritzlaff horses that were truly splendid. I would have one in a heart beat but they are rarely for sale.

PS If you can provide the names of sires and dams I can probably find them.
Pam Studebaker
Saqlawiyat Arabians
Trotwood, Ohio, USA

#7 sheikh rissan

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:03 PM

Hiya

Kildalton Mona was taken from obscurity in Ireland by Brown Arabians in either late 80's or early 90's. There was a large article in the Arab Horse News about this mare, together with two others, Maloof Habiba and Maloof Hadiya, which were also owned by the Browns. I vividly remember reading this article and being interested in the fact that these horses were Blunt (no Skowronek).

Last year I was lucky enough to attend Al Khamsa convention in Oregon, and I met a lovely lady called Carol Monkhouse-Lee at the Doyle Ranch. When we were looking at the horses I recognised one of the mares (they were all chestnut). I couldn't believe it could be the same horse. I got chatting and said the mare looked familiar. Couldn't believe it... Carol used to be Carol Brown, and I was patting and brushing Maloof Habiba and Maloof Hadiya who now live at the Doyle Ranch in the herd. On chatting to Carol, she said there'd not been much interest in England in this sort of preservation breeding. From somewhere in the depths of my brain came the name Kildalton Mona, and Carol was SO surprised I'd remembered her name. Apparently, her ex husband kept Mona, and she was understood to be still in the UK somewhere.

Hope that helps in some way.

Best
Julia

PS Found on the net - Kildalton Mona is by Alnaszr X EBS Surprise
there was a link to Theeothersite.com

and funny enough, this text was written by none other than the wonderful Jill Erissman!!!

Quote

Hello,

I believe Kildalton Mona (Alnaszr X EBS Surprise)
is descended from horses exported to Ireland from
Vincent Melzac's Locust Hill Farm here in the US.

Alnaszr RSI was owned by Mr. Melzac, and
was a 1975 gray stallion bred by Richard Pritzlaff
of Rancho San Ignacio in New Mexico, US.
Alnaszr RSI is by Alcibiades (*Rashad Ibn Nazeer
X *Bint Moniet El Nefous), and out of Naszumi RSI
(Umi X Naszra.)

EBS Surprise LHF was exported from the US
according to AHA datasource, and
was bred by Vincent Melzac.
She was a 1986 gray mare. She is by
Ebony Nefous RSI (Rasmon Nefous RSI X
Nazrieta by Monietor RSI -- a full brother
to Alcibiades above.)
Her dam is Nasr Surprise RSI (Rasmon Nefous RSI
X Naszumi by Umi.)

Kildalton Mona is descended entirely from Egypt I and
Blunt ancestral elements.

Hope this assists your research!

Kind Regards,

Jill
Julia

Kalinin ibn Baletina - 2001 Metallic Chestnut Stallion, Double Balaton
Strain: Hadban Enzahi (TF Elsissa DB 1870)
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Sire: Kais
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Dam: Baletina bint Inez
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#8 Seglavi

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:17 PM

Spot on Julia!! That adds a lot to the picture and Carol Monkhouse-Lee is an amazing lady! She sent her mares back to the Doyle ranch for breeding and visits them each year. She and her husband Terry were a highlight for me at the convention! You Brits carried the weekend! Maybe someone there needs to try to find and buy Kildalton Mona. Seems a shame for that great mare to be lost.
Pam Studebaker
Saqlawiyat Arabians
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#9 ponygirl

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 03:26 AM

Nikki, Pam gave you a great answer. I would add that some people call the Pritzlaff horses that have Rabanna "Pritzlaff/Blunt" rather than Pritzlaff/Crabbet because, at least in the States, most people equate Crabbet with Lady Wentworth, and Rabanna descends from pre-Wentworth days.

Pam knows these bloodlines very well and is also correct that the Pritzlaff horses that descend only from his SE (per Pyramid Society) horses are almost gone -- last count was fewer than 20. Kelly Gobla tried to sell a few last year and had difficulty finding buyers. As I recall, most have gone into non-breeding homes (at least one stallion was gelded). Among the Pritzlaff's with Rabanna, Crockett Dumas is one of the last major breeders. The Johnsons (Michigan) bred some and raced them successfully but are both deceased. Sheila Harmon, who focused on Pritzlaff blood (w/ and w/out Rabanna, w/ and w/out other horses as Pam described) has bred more than 50 over the past 30 years. She is having to sell off all her horses because of a divorce and foreclosure on her farm. As Pam said, these are very athletic horses, many with successful endurance careers.

Sheila has about a dozen horses left to place (www.destinyarabians.com) for anyone who isn't limited to having a Pyramid Society - defined SE.

Anita

I was shocked when I found out that some of these horses where gelded but they were most bought by endurance riders from what Robert Gobla told me. I did manage to buy one stallion from them but they had a very nice Pritzlaff's breed stallion I wanted that has already been sold. He was to be gelded.
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#10 Clothilde

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 11:40 AM

Kidalton Mona , Kidalton Danah and Kidalton Silhouette, all Straight Pritzlaff breeding with Rabanna are now in France.
Maarena Arabians
Straight Babson Egyptian Arabians in France
http://www.straightbabsons.com
Saleslist updated regularly

#11 Seglavi

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 02:20 PM

Kidalton Mona , Kidalton Danah and Kidalton Silhouette, all Straight Pritzlaff breeding with Rabanna are now in France.


Wow Clothilde, are they in the hands of preservation breeders? Who has them and have they any foals?
Pam Studebaker
Saqlawiyat Arabians
Trotwood, Ohio, USA

#12 patver

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 02:39 PM

Wow Clothilde, are they in the hands of preservation breeders? Who has them and have they any foals?


They're owned by an Englishman with Sheykh Obeyd breeding program, as far as I know registered in the UK but kept on a farm in the Dordogne area with principal stallion King of the Nile. His son King Ramses Shahir was out of Kildaton Silhouette
Patrick Vermuyten
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#13 Clothilde

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 10:25 PM

Kidalton Silhouette was a prolific broodmare and has many SO gets, including Nazeeta Fa Shahir also in France.
Last visit, I saw Danah and her daughter by WK Hafiid el Hilal.
So yes they have produced, but unfortunately to my knowledge not to Pritzlaff stallions but within the SO herd.
There is also a pure Pritzlaff stallions with those ladies: Kidalton Mosaic, full brother to Silhouette.
Maarena Arabians
Straight Babson Egyptian Arabians in France
http://www.straightbabsons.com
Saleslist updated regularly

#14 JFerriss

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 11:19 PM

These Kidalton horses descend from a gift of horses by Vincent Melzac to the Irish Government in fall of 1989. All of Vincent's Al Khamsa horses were either 100% Doyle breeding or Pritzlaff/Rabanna and combinations thereof. Vincent owned the exceptional Doyle bred sire Greggan for a while. Vincent began his breeding program in the 70s with Crabbet bred stock of Al Marah and Lewisfield breeding. Later he decided to purchase horses from Richard Pritzlaff. All of Vincent's purchases from Richard were Pritzlaff/Rabanna breeding. He then added the Doyle breeding with the intention of breeding high concentrations of Ali Pasha Sherif/Abbas Pasha breeding in the form of quality horses. His horses did very well in endurance. They were much appreciated by good horsemen in his area of West Virginia. Sadly Vincent passed away weeks after his gift to Ireland and these horses seemed to fade quickly into obscurity in that country until some of them came into the possession of the breeder of the Kidalton stock. Vincent was a magnificent human being with an extraordinary life story and it was a joy to know him.

#15 BhaltosArabians

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 01:14 AM

There is also the sE stallion Farooq (Norus x W Princess Bahiya) who if I am correct has some Pritzlaff breeding. He is owned by Adam Henderson who lives in Scotland, UK. IF anyone is interested in his email please pm me. Farooq has a lovely eye, superb topline and lovely length of neck and neck set.

Cate

#16 BhaltosArabians

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 11:14 AM

Has this discussion died a death?

#17 curly02

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 03:06 PM

we have a mare left that is Rabanna Pritzlaff. She is a Chestnut, nearing 15-3". By Kazmeen Ibn Shiko (Shiko Ibn Sheikh x Bint El Sarie) and out of Sara Moniel by Fakher El Din x Naszeera (by Umi x Nasra) (Umi is by Shiko Ibn Sheikh out of Bint Dahma) So she is very well bred and combines some truly unique bloodlines. A blend of Bint Moniet El Nefous and Bint Dahma and she certainly looks the pedigree.
Joe Linzner
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#18 hansi

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 04:30 PM

Hi Nikki,
No, sorry, but not all the Pritzlaff horses qualify as Pyramid straight Egyptian. The Pritzlaff horses like John Doyle that have a line to the mare Rabanna, are not accepted. They are however Al Khamsa and Asil. This includes also, all the Doyle Egyptian horses. I suppose one could consider them Crabbet/Egyptian. Right now there are more Pritzlaff horses with Rabanna than there are those who descend in all lines from his original Egyptian imports. They are in grave danger of dying out as a group. Three outside SE stallions were added to the breeding group as the years went by. They were Faarad, straight Babson, Bel Gordas, Babson/Sirecho, and Ansata El Salim, Babson/*Ansata. These blends add a few numbers to the overall herd but if they are to be preserved in SE, we need to encourage their breeding among preservationists. This group of horses brings so much to the SE herd, great athletes, excellent substance and legs and hooves, height and deep heart girth. The mares have deep bodies and tip top legs and many have been used with other SE groups and are in danger of becoming all "blends".
The Rabanna group is better off I think as far as numbers go. Much of the reason for that is their success as endurance horses and the devotion of several preservation breeders here in the states. These are fantastic horses for horsemen who want good mounts and performance horses.



Hi Pam

As you might know I fought for decades to have the Rabanna horses accepted by the PS as SEs
and failed. I gave comparrison, if Exocorda is in, so must be Rabanna of which we know so much more. I talked to the "wall". It was the anemosity between Richard and Judi, which is such a shame. I inspected thes horses at Richard's and even Bill who came along in 1985 staying almost a week at Richard's again liked them. they were very correct, very beautiful, and athletic.
Indeed I also consider them " Egyptian/Blunts" and not Crabbet.

When I realize what is going on in other nations, espcially the ME and Regions, Persia etc, it stands to reason that the "Athletic" and "Asils" will win out at the end.

I hope that those who have these precious bloodlines will do something good with them.

Hansi
Hansi-Heck Melnyk
Serenity Arabian farms, Florida, USA



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#19 AhimsaArabians

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 07:08 PM

Hi My name is Marika and I have 5 Pritzaff horses Alperfo RSI , Miracle RSI , Tumonia , GAH Shaqira , and 2 foals I also have a Non Nazeer and Non Moniet Stud His name is Al Saaheb

#20 ponygirl

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 11:05 PM

Hi My name is Marika and I have 5 Pritzaff horses Alperfo RSI , Miracle RSI , Tumonia , GAH Shaqira , and 2 foals I also have a Non Nazeer and Non Moniet Stud His name is Al Saaheb

where are you located?
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