21 replies to this topic

[sheikh rissan]

Well, some of you know that Kali hasn't been very happy in his mouth since I got him..  Yes, we did the teeth (twice.. once from dentist, once from vet).  All appears OK.  Yes, we tried various bits (and yes, I still have them all.. quite a library by now).
Despite the kindest, most ergonomic, appropriately sized Sprenger (in which he DID go better than anything else) .. he:
Said "I don't want the bridle on (ie bit in)" and put his head in the air
Was reluctant to open his mouth
Once the bit was in, he would tip his head to one side as if to evade the touch of the metal on a certain place.  (Annoyingly this also happened with a nice rubber straight bar!)
When ridden he would chew at the bit, and sometimes open his mouth (although you could only really see this in pictures and from the ground)
He would also push his tongue back and forth under the bit, and sometimes he would obstruct his breathing.
This all meant that he was preoccupied with the bit, and not paying full attention to what he was being asked to do under saddle.
BY THE WAY - VERY LIGHT CONTACT, NO PULLING AT HIS MOUTH, EVER WENT ON.
Sooo.... for some time I have been considering a Dr Cook bitless bridle
The only reason I resisted is that I want to bring him out under saddle, and as far as I can see, you have to ride in "english" tack (unless in a specific western class for example)and with a bit on a colt or stallion.
But now I took the bull by the horns, and decided that things were not going to change for him, so I would have to make the change and try bitless.
Bridle arrived today.  Tried it tonight.  Phil rode first as he uses a bitless (different make) on a client's mare.
Well what a difference!
At first Kali said ???  And enjoyed trying to nip Phil whilst being led (stallions, eh?..Opportunists, all..  Once ridden, he seemed to comprehend the aids which were being asked by this bridle almost immediately.  Just a couple of pauses and a bit of head tossing as if to say ??? again.  Then on.  We rode in almost no contact, just to be careful.  There was some licking at first, as he found he could move his tongue unimpeeded, and it was as if he couldn't believe this was possible.  After that, mouth was closed the whole time..  I swear he was smiling at the end (we only rode for about 15 mins in total)..  He was nicely forward going, and suddenly it was as if all the signals (aids) he was receiving were getting through with no "white noise" to be filtered out.
OK.  This was obviously the fist trial, but if it continues as well as it started, I shall be ecstatic..  I believe you can write to a show committee to ask for approval for bitless.  I shall certainly be doing that, or the alternative is to practice between bitted and bitless...  And I don't really feel that that is kind for the horse.

So... anyone else got bitless, if so, which type, and how do you like it??

[Desert Tag Arabians]

Julia---I have been using a bitless bridle for several years now.  Mine is the Dr. Cook brand.  I can't say enough about these bridles.  My horses were SO much happier after I started using mine, and I was surprised to see some bad behaviors resolved instantly just with using the bridle.  I had worried initially I wouldn't have enough control, but that was never the case.  In fact, the bridle not only helped my horses, but it helped ME.  I became a better rider, paying more attention to my seat and legs, my focus and vision, and less on using the reins and putting pressure on the head.  I finally started feeling like I was a partner with my horse.

As you can see, I'm a fan   .   I don't show, just do trails, so I hope I never have to use a bit on a horse again.

Angela

[Rachel]

ummm do halters with 2 leads count??

lol I have never tried a bitless bridle but really want to...we had a mare here that could be ridden in anything so it would have been perfect for her....once Aries is older (more experienced)he'll be getting one :D

[firepanther]

I have considered it several times but never actually went to get one. One reason was...I really didn't want to use it incorrectly. I have always used a regular bridle with a bit, so I'm hesitant to try something new.
I don't understand why you can't show in a bitless bridle...anyone know why that is?

[sheikh rissan]

firepanther, on 22 September 2010 - 02:02 AM, said:

I have considered it several times but never actually went to get one. One reason was...I really didn't want to use it incorrectly. I have always used a regular bridle with a bit, so I'm hesitant to try something new.
I don't understand why you can't show in a bitless bridle...anyone know why that is?

Hiya
I looked up the Arab Horse Society Rules and it says:
Specific to In Hand Classes
SHOW HALTERS Stallions and colts aged three years and over must be shown wearing bridles and bits which are both secure and comfortable for the horse. All bridles without bits are equally to be both secure and comfortable for the horse. Bridles and bits must not be so thin as to cause pain to the horse. Foals must be suitably haltered without chains. Solid metal nosebands and headpieces are not allowed.

SPECIFIC TO RIDEN CLASSES
Ridden class exhibits must wear conventional and well maintained English tack. The judge may refuse to ride or judge a horse if he/she deems the tack to be unsafe or unsuitable

So, the answer is to In hand.. definitely and to Ridden, I am unsure.  It depends upon the use of the word "conventional".  To be on the safe side, and because he's a stallion, I feel I would have to write to the show committee and statement that I will be riding in a Dr Cook bitless bridle.
In any event, in an English Ridden Class, it is traditional to use a double bridle, or a pelham with double reins...  and I doubt that they would agree to the bitless, but I will certainly try.

Seems rather annoying to me, so long as the horse is obedient and goes well and is controllable ....

[sheikh rissan]

LOL on the headcollar and 2 lead ropes.  That was exactly what I occasionally hacked out my old stallion in (bareback).  I used to canter and gallop and everything...
This stallion didn't understand the headcollar and leadrope, and because he was being restarted, we didn't try again, just left it alone..  
But I like to do that... all the same

[maxhopemime]

Julia, what size did you get Kali? I have thought about getting one but I have a hard enough time getting regular headstalls to fit, Cob is not big enough thru the brow and jowels and standard is too long, to big thru the nose and or the jowels (dang arabs)

[Zomorroda]

Hi Julia,

does a knothalter count?

I used to ride Zomorroda with a bit in Egypt and she really hated it, did show a lot of bad mannors ... everything was gone as soon as we changed. She reacted like Kali did ??? is this true ??? wow !!!
I will never get a bit into her mouth again. Karima doesn't even know one and if I can decide for all of our life (inshallah!) she never will.

It is a rumour it is less controll - it is just a different kind of riding, which is easy to learn but rules change slow this seems to be part of our life  

Sabine

[sheikh rissan]

maxhopemime, on 22 September 2010 - 08:24 PM, said:

Julia, what size did you get Kali? I have thought about getting one but I have a hard enough time getting regular headstalls to fit, Cob is not big enough thru the brow and jowels and standard is too long, to big thru the nose and or the jowels (dang arabs)

Hi Chris
They only have "small", "medium" and "large".
You measue your horse from 2.5 - 2 inches up from the corner of the mouth and right up around behind the ears and over the other side to the same distance from the corner of the mouth.  This is the "headstall" size
Then you measure around the muzzle at that position, 1.5 - 2 inches up from the corner of the mouth.  This is the "noseband" size.
You look at the designated sizes, S M and L, and pick the size that corresponds to somewhere in the middle of those measurements.  If you want a L browband on a M headstall and a M noseband, then you say so, and they supply it like that.
It gets even better, as if you aren't sure if it will be for you, you can purchase the webbing version of the bridle, and if you DO like it, then they will refund the FULL purchase price of the webbing version against the leather bridle.  At least this is the case on the Dr Cook website in the UK.
I decided to go for the biothane bridle, as I didn't think I would be showing in it, and they mention that if used frequently, the leather eventually can wear where it passes through the running rings ... so I thought I'd get the more durable one.
I was so delighted.  How is this for customer service?  They said they had the black in stock and I ordered it, but then they called and asked if I wanted to change, because black was out of stock.  When I said "no, sorry, I need black, but I really wanted the bridle for tomorrow", they sent me a new brown one, just for me to use until the black is back in stock.  All I have to do is send it back in the post to them once I have received the black one.  NO CHARGE..
I cannot speak highly enough so far... very informative website as well.

[sheikh rissan]

Zomorroda, on 23 September 2010 - 07:47 PM, said:

Hi Julia,

does a knothalter count?

I used to ride Zomorroda with a bit in Egypt and she really hated it, did show a lot of bad mannors ... everything was gone as soon as we changed. She reacted like Kali did ??? is this true ??? wow !!!
I will never get a bit into her mouth again. Karima doesn't even know one and if I can decide for all of our life (inshallah!) she never will.

It is a rumour it is less controll - it is just a different kind of riding, which is easy to learn but rules change slow this seems to be part of our life  

Sabine

Yes, of course it does, Sabine.
I am glad you report a similar experience.  I truly hope that when I ride him again (and I hope Phil has ridden him today or tomorrow (I am in Paris right now) it will be even better..  So nice for him not to be preocupied with his mouth all the time :-)
I do so hope that it will be possible to ride him at shows in the bitless
J

[sheikh rissan]

Updating with pictures of the third time being ridden in the bitless

Absolutely no tipping of the head, and very happy to see his mouth closed all the time :-)

Noticed on reviewing the pics that the saddle's too far forward!!

[Desert Tag Arabians]

   He looks great in the bitless!  I can't tell you how pleased I am to see it working out so well .

Here's some pictures of my horses (well, they used to be my horses...I sold them recently) wearing the bitless.

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[Zomorroda]

Hi Julia,

some pics of Zomorroda ridden with the knothalter,

but PLEASE !!! ignore the bad performance of my legs, because on this pics taken from 2 videos I was starting the first two times with our new treeless stratrekk-saddle and still have to sort out keeping my legs where they should be   

Sabine

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[sheikh rissan]

Hiya Angela and Sabine

Thanks so much for posting piccies of your horses in their bitless, too.

To anyone else reading this, I am not saying that bitless is a must for everyone.  I have just come to realise that for some horses (ie mine...) a bit is a cause of problems that won't go away..
I am so grateful that there are options...

[Kathy Bailey]

I just purchased a couple of double nose band side-pull hackamores.  I haven't gotten a chance to try them out yet (it took over 2 months just to get them, now the weather has turned) So I'll let you know how they go when I get a chance to ride.

[VanAlma]

I'm interested to see how everyone progresses, too. I have an older mare who is not really broke. I've only been on her bareback with a halter but I am considering getting her working on the trail soon so hubby and I can ride. I am traditionally a snaffle person but am considering bitless for this mare. She is 16 and had her teeth done for the first time in her LIFE about 2 weeks ago and they were pretty bad, plus the vet mentioned she's parrot mouthed? Or the other way around? Terrible I can't remember. There is still more work to do on her, but she is chewing better. I'm wondering if after years of poor oral health that a bitless might be a better option, but I guess I'll have to try a bit first to really know. I doubt this mare would ever be shown so am not all that concerned with being traditional with her.
BTW - Julia and Sabine - your horses are lovely animals. Wouldn't mind having either in my fields

[hansi]

Kathy Bailey, on 05 December 2010 - 06:38 AM, said:

I just purchased a couple of double nose band side-pull hackamores.  I haven't gotten a chance to try them out yet (it took over 2 months just to get them, now the weather has turned) So I'll let you know how they go when I get a chance to ride.

I think it is great to ride with a bitless bridle, when doing so for pleasure demanding little or not furthering/considering the 7 systems of a horse.
However I dont know how one can develope the muscle system, movement and balance without a bit.

Hansi

[Phoenix]

Bitless bridles are great.

We have also used Hackamore's, bosal's and when just first startting out  a halter and two very soft leads. We keep it pretty simple stupid when first starting. Lots of circle & flex work, just moving forward, reverse and such.

We have also had re-hab Arabians that had their mouths trashed and ripped to shreds by stupid riders and couldn't use a bit since former "riders" had almost ruined them. I swear some people shouldn't even own a gerbil.

I used to ride way more often in past and use a lot of leg on my horses when training.

[Kathy Bailey]

I guess it's all in the training.

[Kathy Bailey]

Btw Both of mine that we ride are older. One is 21 and the other is 13. The 13 year old used to be used as a child's lesson horse so I'm sure she's had enough of the bit and the 21 year old has been there done that. We also use a lot of leg and seat for riding.

Both get a mindset once you put a bit in their mouths can you can tell they don't want anything to do with it. I don't want that bitter mindset and anticipation of pain in the mouth. It screws up our fun.