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#41 Nadj Al Nur

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:17 AM

Joeseph, I don't care if somebody has more money than God, or not a penny to their name. I don't even care if somebody dislikes me and rips a strip off me, as long as it is ME personally that they are ripping, but NOBODY has the right to rip on my friends, my family, or fine organisations because they dislike ME. I may argue with Hansi, but I would NEVER question her ability as a horse person, or drag any member of her family into it, or denigrate her horses. You just don't do that........or, at least, most people don't.
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#42 Suellen Taylor

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:29 AM

OK.....Last post on this thread....Joseph, I have not seen you around on ANY forums very long to my knowledge, we do not know you...and you might not quite understand ALL the turmoil, consternation, and downright ugliness caused by several people, most of whom are no longer on this forum, but in particular here one person..and SHE has hurt people...their feelings, their organizations and their family members, and just recently made comment as to past generations and family traits.

GEEEEEEESH...............give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, knowledge, research and just plain common sense will prevail, and that is wonderful. I have her volumes..paid good cash for them..and I admire all she has researched, but her TONE and her way of expressing herself is deplorable.....she spews hatred at TPS, and now Al Khamsa..unflattering remarks that are NOT in the least bit warranted...and I, myself, just plain and flat out do NOT understand it at all. And I do not believe it is a language problem, not after all this time and the tomes she has penned..on every forum as well as in hardback. There have always been references to certain bloodlines and rather than teaching about them, there is constant berating. I could name a half dozen larger farms that have been defiled over the years...and their owners! WHY?????? Who is jealous of whom?

She has money, fame, and knowledge that COULD be put to such wonderful use FOR this industry, the SE'S and others.and if you think I might be jealous, you could be a little correct. BUT OF HER KNOWLEDGE, and absolutely NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I started waay too late with my beloved horses, both domestics and SE's, and have tried to do some things during the past 18 years or so...suffered great trials, and when warranted, tried to teach about them, to forewarn others, so as they would not have to suffer. I BLAMED no one and nothing in doing so, a trait not known to this person..she thrives on blame..and you cannot deny it.

I am probably as old as she is..but I try to wear my old age wisely, and not offend, (other than the occasional "toot' when walking, cannot be helped..LOL) AND I truly wish I had more knowledge about some things, so I could talk intelligently about them, but ONE thing I do know, is how to treat others, I follow the Golden Rule and I am brutally honest at times....this is one of those times.

When I think of all the GOOD that should be being accomplished with this kind of knowledge, any amount of money, and HER caring nature of the horses, well, for heavens sakes, let's go about it with a POSITIVE attitude, not always a negative, blaming and accusory "tone"..It is terribly offensive and turns people off..which includes their ears! Who can teach when NO ONE is listening??????

I totally agree with the past few posters, I thank Dave and Caryn very much for their kind words..and I will remain, to read and continue learning, will comment when I see fit, but I will not be participating with or against any person..Just takes too much and life is too short! There just plain should be no reason for any of this, especially when friends, their family and their ancestors come into play...and above all else...NOT their horses!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are gifts, and we are their caretakers.....period!
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#43 desertarabians.com

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:32 PM

Well Suellen, your right I have not been on this site much and am relatively new and frankly will avoid it somewhat as I don't want to live in here as I feel many seem to do. I need to spend my time earning a living and caring for my steeds... now there is a word we don't see much... and building my website.. ugh..

The whole point of my comments regarding Hansi is that she has been a friend for many years now and I see a whole other side of her that many do not. So I still believe that when things are taken out of context as I believe they were in the 2 fillies string that it must be pointed out. I also feel that we should lead by example. Enough said on my part as everyone knows my stand. I hope to have good relations with everyone in so far as this is possible and would rather discuss the common interest we all have than things personal. I wish you all good luck!

Joseph

#44 Seglavi

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:57 PM

I have apparently missed all these fireworks and I guess that is a good thing.
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#45 Caryn Rogosky

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:01 PM

Suellen, I'm glad to know that you will not be leaving the forum. Thank you for your very honest and poignant post. I think you make many points that go to the heart of the matter. I would like to join you in saying that as far as Hansi is concerned, there is so much potential there for a positive influence and a valued contribution within the SE/Asil Community. There is no reason that any breeder/owner should feel it necesssary to defend the criteria of their qualified SE, AK, SO, BL or BS horses. If all who have "used" the labels to their own advantage actually respected the authority of the designating organizatons and accepted their right to choose their own rootstock, then so many years of conflict would be erased. It is not too late to turn this whole thing around -- and I continue to hope for that possiblity. In the event that the same continues, I will be amongst those who will challenge, defend. and correct ..and to hopefully to present factual, useful information from time to time. Maybe some day a ray of light will suddenly break through and Hansi will see that she still has the opportunity to leave a positive legacy...all things are possible in this world.
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#46 Heidi

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:39 PM

So why not start positive posts, I feel like this forum could be a source of positive information if people let go of old grudges.I've had horses in my herd bloodlines malighned but I certainly am not going to hold a grudge.Why make a thread about one person, nobody sees the irony in that?Now I'm out for the day spending time with the horses on a really nice day.

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#47 M Huprich

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:42 PM

This site could be of GREAT benefit to many if we only had positive topics and posts. We'd get people back again too.

I think most of us got interested in Arabians, and in SE, for all the joy and happiness they bring to our hearts and soul.
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#48 Caryn Rogosky

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:50 PM

So why not start positive posts, I feel like this forum could be a source of positive information if people let go of old grudges.I've had horses in my herd bloodlines malighned but I certainly am not going to hold a grudge.Why make a thread about one person, nobody sees the irony in that?Now I'm out for the day spending time with the horses on a really nice day.


Many positive posts have been started but then turned sour -- and NOT because of "old grudges" held by the people who are expressing their frustrations here. That is a not an accurate assesment of the problem, in my opinion. Grudges are ill feelings which are harbored for PAST injuries. However, conflict on the forums erupts when negative, false or inflammatory comments are made NOW...CONTINUOUSLY. Look at the past few threads that went south. The discussions were going fine...cordial, until Hansi, yes Hansi, interjected a bit of venom about one of her pet issues/peeves and a malicious diatribe ensued.

I'm sorry Heidi, I don't mean any disrespect here...but if anyone is guilty of holding grudges it is Hansi -- grudges against the PS, grudges against AK, grudges against SOF, grudges against all of the people that have dared to challenge her, or have not caved to her demands over the years. Those grudges compel her to strike out whenever she sees a possible opening to "get one in". You said to Dave that it takes two to Tango --- that's what society once said about women and girls who were raped. Not to compare the severity of the two circumstances by any means, but that is where I see the irony -- the irony in the fact that, once again, the victims are being blamed for the crime. I'm very sorry if you can't see that because for many it is very, very obvious. In fact, some feel that they are now being targeted for finally speaking out, and that's just wrong. I think we all see that there is a problem in the forums and most would like to see it fixed -- but the first step in fixing any problem is being honest about admitting its cause. I would love to think that a meeting of the minds is possible, motivated by a mutual love for the SE Arabian horse...I hope it is.
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#49 Heidi

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:00 PM

Sorry I don't agree as I see all the posts even the ones that have been deleted. I'm not taking sides but do see it as an issue from both sides.

BINT SAFIERA 2000 Bay mare
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NAKHDA AL SHAIB 2004 Grey Gelding<---- AL
SIHR JAWHER 2006 Bay Stallion
NADEERAH ALIAH 2006 Bay mare
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SHAMS FIDAT 2012 grey filly SKYLER the 1/2 Arabian pinto wonder horse


#50 Caryn Rogosky

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:09 PM

I would like to add that personally, I would not like to see Hansi banned from this forum (not suggesting that this is a possibility, just clarifying that its not my goal). I think that she has much to offer, and while I disagree with her on many points, I agree with her on others -- and either way, she has a strong point of view which can be very beneficial to healthy debate. Debate, in of itself, motivates people to think more deeply about important subjects, and I would hate to see this or any other forum be so placid as to be devoid of interesting food for thought. What needs to change, or at least be restrained, is the compulsion to override contrasting opinions and ideas by personally attacking those who present them. It is not within the realm of healthy debate to insult people's families, friends and personal accomplishments in life. I would add that once you start attacking people's bloodlines, there is no question that you are attacking their families.
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#51 desertrat

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:11 PM

I have participated in the world of the Arabian horse for 45 years. There have always been mud-slingers and vitriolic attackers. This behavior is called "Bullying." It is possible to disagree with another's opinion and not vilify them, their ancestors, or their socio-economic status. Each and every one of us must do our best to be positive for the good of the breed and ourselves. This does not mean abuse must be accepted. Respect is a two-way street.
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#52 ArleneMagid

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:45 PM

I have posted here far less than I would have liked because often when I do so Hansi brings up an old grudge against me which has no bearing on what I have posted (and indeed has no bearing on anything whatever as it is not based on the facts of what happened). I am here to provide positive information about the achievements of Egyptian horses as I research them. I would like to feel I can do so in an environment where my information will be enjoyed and appreciated. In the past, clients of mine have posted my work here and have been attacked for doing so because of disrespect for what I do. Should the atmosphere here be less negative, I would be here a lot more often.
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#53 Nadj Al Nur

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:04 PM

I have posted here far less than I would have liked because often when I do so Hansi brings up an old grudge against me which has no bearing on what I have posted (and indeed has no bearing on anything whatever as it is not based on the facts of what happened). I am here to provide positive information about the achievements of Egyptian horses as I research them. I would like to feel I can do so in an environment where my information will be enjoyed and appreciated. In the past, clients of mine have posted my work here and have been attacked for doing so because of disrespect for what I do. Should the atmosphere here be less negative, I would be here a lot more often.

I always find your information very interesting. I like that you point out all the relationships between the different horses and their ancestors.......always something new there that I have missed. I learn a lot from them.
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#54 hansi

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:15 PM

So why not start positive posts, I feel like this forum could be a source of positive information if people let go of old grudges.I've had horses in my herd bloodlines malighned but I certainly am not going to hold a grudge.Why make a thread about one person, nobody sees the irony in that?Now I'm out for the day spending time with the horses on a really nice day.



Yes Heidi, I agree.However, when a person is constantly attacked, every post such makes- me, and always by the same group for many years one does get fed-up.

When then such people claim that they are for the Arabian Horses and the people, it is amazing to me.
When personal motives, gains rule the roost, it becomes unacceptable. When a person has the courage to point out discrepancies organization make, it should be received in good faith, and/or questions asked. I feel certain that many know that I DONT MAKE IDLE STATEMENTS! and know exactly what I am talking about.,!!

The disrespect issued by the "group" is also unacceptable. To tell me what to do and change ,also.
If someone wants to constantly misconstrue what I am saying, it shows a particular charater in my opinion.
Do good people rrealy care if bad ones decide what is a legancy or not? WOW.


On another subject. Has anybody ever thought they had a particular friend, protected and helped only to now find out that they never were? I have, and that just very recently, I guess minutes ago.

You all need to do what pleases you, fortunately thousands internationally feel different.
If you want to reck a 35 year old AK organization, put its creditability into question, be my guest. I really dont care about this anymore, have better things to do.

I just wonder, have I wasted my time supporting all I could? May be some people think the USA is an island and can dish out as they please, and when objections are issued, take violent defence.

Yes , the group made itself very clear, and that was expected.

To those, where the shoe does not fit, please ignore, I know exactly what I am talking about,.

To A Magid. time and time again I asked you to e-mail me to answer an important question.
You have not so far. I now have no choice but to deal with it in another way.,

Hansi
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#55 ArleneMagid

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:52 PM

To A Magid. time and time again I asked you to e-mail me to answer an important question.
You have not so far. I now have no choice but to deal with it in another way.,

Hansi


This sounds like a threat, and is diametrically opposed to the more positive feelings wanted by most people here. I've been involved with this breed since childhood and professionally involved for 30 years. Not sure what you plan to do but good luck in doing it.

#56 hansi

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:58 PM

I have posted here far less than I would have liked because often when I do so Hansi brings up an old grudge against me which has no bearing on what I have posted (and indeed has no bearing on anything whatever as it is not based on the facts of what happened). I am here to provide positive information about the achievements of Egyptian horses as I research them. I would like to feel I can do so in an environment where my information will be enjoyed and appreciated. In the past, clients of mine have posted my work here and have been attacked for doing so because of disrespect for what I do. Should the atmosphere here be less negative, I would be here a lot more often.


No , I never held a grudge against you. I highly respect your work, feel that you are very helpful to many who appreciate your work and know how much work it took to do what you are doing. I admire this. all I wanted, is to ask you a question, a detrimental one, of a statement made to me years ago of a statement you supposingly have mede, if such is true or not. I wanted this done privately, otherwise we get bedtime stories of more attacks.
my e-mail address is [email="Khofo1@wildblue.net"

Thanks and have a grand day

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#57 Caryn Rogosky

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:39 PM

Yes Heidi, I agree.However, when a person is constantly attacked, every post such makes- me, and always by the same group for many years one does get fed-up.

When then such people claim that they are for the Arabian Horses and the people, it is amazing to me.
When personal motives, gains rule the roost, it becomes unacceptable. When a person has the courage to point out discrepancies organization make, it should be received in good faith, and/or questions asked. I feel certain that many know that I DONT MAKE IDLE STATEMENTS! and know exactly what I am talking about.,!!

The disrespect issued by the "group" is also unacceptable. To tell me what to do and change ,also.
If someone wants to constantly misconstrue what I am saying, it shows a particular charater in my opinion.
Do good people rrealy care if bad ones decide what is a legancy or not? WOW.


On another subject. Has anybody ever thought they had a particular friend, protected and helped only to now find out that they never were? I have, and that just very recently, I guess minutes ago.

You all need to do what pleases you, fortunately thousands internationally feel different.
If you want to reck a 35 year old AK organization, put its creditability into question, be my guest. I really dont care about this anymore, have better things to do.

I just wonder, have I wasted my time supporting all I could? May be some people think the USA is an island and can dish out as they please, and when objections are issued, take violent defence.

Yes , the group made itself very clear, and that was expected.

To those, where the shoe does not fit, please ignore, I know exactly what I am talking about,.

To A Magid. time and time again I asked you to e-mail me to answer an important question.
You have not so far. I now have no choice but to deal with it in another way.,

Hansi


So sad. Hansi, you just continue to prove that you cannot be reasoned with. Over the past few days many people have expressed their displeasure with the way you treat others on the forums. Do you think that they can all be wrong? Can they can all be "bad"?

Your behavior is well beyond the pale of what society considers civil, and yet, despite your perpetual bashing of people's character, despite your unrelenting attacks on GOOD people and GOOD organizations, some have attempted to hold out an olive branch -- only to have their arms chopped off. Why? Because, as you've demonstrated many times, what you cannot control you must destroy. For you there is no middle ground.

If ever there was an appropriate time for someone to experiment with a little introspection, it seems that for you that time may be now. From what you write, I can't imagine that you could be happy -- but you can change that for the better if you want to. A different perspective can make a world of difference. As my grandmother always said, where there is life...there is hope.

#58 Angella

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:55 PM

I am a newcomer with no past history or grudges. Neither have I met the vast majority of the posters here (in fact, the only one I've met currently has no SE's). All I know... all my opinions... are based on what I see here - good and bad.

Hansi, I will say... while there is much I do respect about you (the care you give your horses; the willingness to take them... all of them... back; the breeding program; the knowledge you have of these horses and much more...) I have to say, I cannot respect the way you speak to those who disagree with you.

I don't discount those who seem to dog at your trail... my opinion of them is also formed by this behaviour - and it isn't good.

- on the research bit, people can't ask questions. You say they can... but when i first joined the forum (back before I knew how tedious the exochorda debate was) I was curious to read more when it was brought up, so I went over to SE.com to find it, and I have to say "questions" did not seem welcomed.

As somebody who believes very strongly in forming my own opinions based on the facts at hand rather than the conclusions of others, I will say there was one person on that thread who argued her point... stated her reasons... and then went to the trouble of providing copies of the proof. You were asked... but seemed to want to have your position "received on good faith". Well, you are entitled to hold your opinions... and to provide or withhold the information you have gathered through your efforts. You are even entitled to want others to take your opinions on good faith... but you aren't entitled to actually be angry with them when they don't... or when their conclusions differ from yours.

I know that, as a newcomer, the only argument on that thread that held weight was the one that was backed up.

Unlike you, I am a nobody from Alberta Canada... and fine with that. I will never have the influence on the breed you have had. When people think of the historical figures influential in arabian breeding, they will not think of my little farm. They will yours. I know if it were me, I wouldn't want to remembered as being "angry".

Now, I know I'm just that nobody from Alberta whose opinion really doesn't matter. But I'm also a nobody who had no preconceived notions of any of the big players, past or present, before joining this forum.

I guess, for me, confidence... sureness... is best exhibited by accepting others differing opinions and choices as theirs to make. If, for me, I'm sure of my decisions, opinions, and course then the differing opinions choices and decisions of other people or organizations doesn't leave me angry because, quite honestly, they don't matter.
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#59 stuart

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:14 PM

Dear Angella,

What a balanced post!
I am also nobody from noonesville......... I read, I absorb the valid and I enjoy my horses.
I found myself unwittingly dragged in front of the full uglyness that this site can manifest when a picture of one of my charges was posted here and critiqued.

As always, there was positive to be drawn from the thread.

All I can offer you is this.......... sift through all of the diatribe......... and pluck that which is salient to what 'you' are trying to achieve.

The past is so relevant......... but so is the present and future yet to come....... and hopefully yours and my actions/beliefs/decisions will offer to play a part of that.

Regards

Stuart.
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#60 hansi

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:04 PM

Well Suellen, your right I have not been on this site much and am relatively new and frankly will avoid it somewhat as I don't want to live in here as I feel many seem to do. I need to spend my time earning a living and caring for my steeds... now there is a word we don't see much... and building my website.. ugh.. The whole point of my comments regarding Hansi is that she has been a friend for many years now and I see a whole other side of her that many do not. So I still believe that when things are taken out of context as I believe they were in the 2 fillies string that it must be pointed out. I also feel that we should lead by example. Enough said on my part as everyone knows my stand. I hope to have good relations with everyone in so far as this is possible and would rather discuss the common interest we all have than things personal. I wish you all good luck! Joseph


Yes Joe, this is how it is and I agree with you and follow. We have better things to do, so do many of our friends.
Let these particular posters continue as we have for decades, and I wish them luck. We dont need what is being dished out.

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