35 replies to this topic

[JFerriss]

Rosie, on 31 January 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

A final question (for the timebeing!), the AK site has that there are currently 192 AK foundadtion horses represented in the pedigrees of living AK horses but there is 194 on the list, so have 2 lines been lost since the list was originally made?

By the way your stallion drquinndsa looks lovely!

just got back from being away for awhile so just off the top of my head without going looking I think that the stallion *King John was one of the "lost" AK foundation horses. He was a stallion bred by the Shammar tribe and taken to Egypt for racing and then imported to the US, in about 1929 I believe, by Herman Frank. King John was later owned by Kellogg and featured at the Pomona Ranch sunday shows. His blood was in AK horses for a while though rare, but the line was lost prior to the publication of AK's current books and web resources. Can't recall who the other might be because I need some sleep. It might be the Saudi desert bred mare *Ghalia, one of the imports to the US by ARAMCO workers (D.A. Holm). She produced but is no longer represented. I'm not sure if that is the other "lost" one on the list, just guessing. There are also other AK Foundation horses not listed but acknowledged posthumously though no longer represented, and others are represented in a different way such as the stallion Tuwaisan from Bahrain, who has descent in South Africa but not yet here. If  you become a collector of back issues of Khamsat you might find some articles about the other horses given special founding recognition.
All my best,
Joe Ferriss

[Jill Erisman]

JFerriss, on 01 February 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

just got back from being away for awhile so just off the top of my head without going looking I think that the stallion *King John was one of the "lost" AK foundation horses. He was a stallion bred by the Shammar tribe and taken to Egypt for racing and then imported to the US, in about 1929 I believe, by Herman Frank. King John was later owned by Kellogg and featured at the Pomona Ranch sunday shows. His blood was in AK horses for a while though rare, but the line was lost prior to the publication of AK's current books and web resources. Can't recall who the other might be because I need some sleep. It might be the Saudi desert bred mare *Ghalia, one of the imports to the US by ARAMCO workers (D.A. Holm). She produced but is no longer represented. I'm not sure if that is the other "lost" one on the list, just guessing. There are also other AK Foundation horses not listed but acknowledged posthumously though no longer represented, and others are represented in a different way such as the stallion Tuwaisan from Bahrain, who has descent in South Africa but not yet here. If  you become a collector of back issues of Khamsat you might find some articles about the other horses given special founding recognition.
All my best,
Joe Ferriss

Thanks for the great answer Joe -- this one
had me stumped!

Jill

[Rosie]

Thank you as well Joe & I will try to sort out getting some back isues of the Khamsat, am enjoying reading the last few issues!

[drquinndsa]

I am not sure this will work, but I tried to attach a short video clip of Sal at 20 years old. He is a bit hairy now due to winter, and is showing some age in his face, but he is not much more aged at present. Can't WAIT to breed him this year!

[Rosie]

Hi again, another question I'm afraid, are there many (if any) horses today that are of Egypt I & Blunt only elements?  If so, could you give me examples of some horses, I spent ages looking at pedigrees on the AK site & not found 1 yet!  Much appreciated.

[Ray]

Rosie, on 10 February 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Hi again, another question I'm afraid, are there many (if any) horses today that are of Egypt I & Blunt only elements?  If so, could you give me examples of some horses, I spent ages looking at pedigrees on the AK site & not found 1 yet!  Much appreciated.

There are a few, I would venture to guess that the majority today are of Babson descent.  SS DARK PRINCE is a year 2000 model.  Some of the Dickinson horses, such as Julep, have descendants in the Egypt I/Blunt category.  KHE HELEN is a year 2001 model.  If you follow some of the *FADL or JULEP descendants, you can find more.  It is getting harder to find them without Egypt II or Inshass, or Saudi and others.

[Nadj Al Nur]

Ray, on 10 February 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

There are a few, I would venture to guess that the majority today are of Babson descent.  SS DARK PRINCE is a year 2000 model.  Some of the Dickinson horses, such as Julep, have descendants in the Egypt I/Blunt category.  KHE HELEN is a year 2001 model.  If you follow some of the *FADL or JULEP descendants, you can find more.  It is getting harder to find them without Egypt II or Inshass, or Saudi and others.

Actually, most of the Doyle horses are Egypt 1 and Blunt, and nothing else.. There is a function on the roster where you can look up the horses by breeder, if you want to compile a list of them.
C

[Jill Erisman]

Rosie, on 10 February 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Hi again, another question I'm afraid, are there many (if any) horses today that are of Egypt I & Blunt only elements?  If so, could you give me examples of some horses, I spent ages looking at pedigrees on the AK site & not found 1 yet!  Much appreciated.

Hi Rosie,

There was a strong effort made by Col. John Fippen and
others to catalog the Egypt I/Blunt horses left.
These horses are also known as Heirloom, and you can
find more about them here:
http://www.heirlooma...om/history.html

I highly recommend the book Heirloom Egyptian Arabian
Horses 1840-2000 by John W. Fippen if you want
more extensive data on the subject.  I believe it
is available on the AK website.  I'm still trying
to fully digest this volume, and I did some of the early
research with my beyond ancient microfiche reader
and stud books in that medium around 1994-1995.

From the book, the population summaries for the
current Heirloom (or Egypt I/Blunt group)
population might look like this:

Extant   Extinct   Total   Decade or years available
298    98 396 1981 to 1990
454   111 565 1991 to 2000
  50 5    55   2001 and 2002

If all the extant horses from 1981 to 2002
above were alive today, the total Heirloom
population would be 802 through 2002.
Unfortunately, I'm confident the real numbers
fall far short of this.

There is actually a marvelous palette of "paints"
to choose from within Heirloom horses if one looks.
There are Basbons, Babson/Hallany Mistanny, Julep,
Doyles, Pritzlaff, Rabanna, Ansata, *Fakher El
Din, *Tuhotmos, Anter, and Abla among other
stock that came to the US.  This isn't a complete
list by far but is a good start.

For our program, we have blends of some of
these programs and horses as they tend to produce the kind of
equine we especially like.

These are our Heirloom (Egypt I/Blunt) horses and
each is listed in in the AK Roster:

Razal Ibn Azalia   1994 grey stallion
Aifisas VelvetCCR  1994 grey mare
Illa Bint Serag 1995 chestnut mare
Bahir Ibn Kazmeen  2001 chestnut stallion
Mistu Monietta SA   2007 bay mare

Thanks for asking about living horses --
I hope others will share theirs!

Best,

Jill

[Seglavi]

Rosie, there is a great young AK/SE/Heirloom mare for sale at Mistu Arabians right now.  Her name is Mistu Khalida (Danzig Hilal SA {RG Hilacious X Serrasil} X RG Sarlima {Ansata El Salim X RSI Sara}.  Saw her several times since she was foaled and she is excellent quality with a lot of performance potential.  She has been raised right and well cared for and loved.  She would be a foundation quality mare as well as providing most any under saddle potential anyone could want.  She is 100% Egypt I/Blunt breeding.

[Rosie]

Thanks again for your replies, I had forgotten about the Doyles, I didn't think to look one of them up for some reason!!  Thanks for your reply Jill, I didn't know about the Heirloom horses I will take a look at the pedigrees of your horses as a starting point, do you have a website or any pictures of them?  I have also found a very nice Heirloom stallion here in France, who I'd love to use in the future, Zaraq el Amir bwa with Laurence of Arabians stud, they have some very nice SO / AK / Heirloom horses at their stud!

Thanks for telling me about Mistu Khalida Pam, she sounds very nice, although unfortunately I'm not in the postion to buy a horse from the States at the moment (transport costs are horrendous!!!), although you never know what the future may bring!

I would love to see photos of anyones living Heirloom horses - maybe I should start a new topic?

[Seglavi]

I think that is a very good idea Rosie!  Start a new thread!  I want to mention, as I continue to do so whenever the opportunity presents, that there is a wonderful straight Pritzlaff SE stallion in Germany, the only one in Europe and one of less than 10 left in the world.  His name is Faraag Allah (Rasmoniet RSI X Farah Bint Shiko by Shiko Ibn Sheikh).  You can google his name and find the owner as I can't recall the name right now. He has a full brother in blood here in the states, Rasmoniet EHAP and we would love to incorporate his blood into our program.  Maybe you can look this guy up and take some photos and tell us about him. I would love to know more. He should be an athlete supreme. I must add that he would qualify for Asil, Al Khamsa, Pyramid SE, SOFI and Heirloom as well as being Blue List eligible.

[Rosie]

Hi Pam, I'll start a new thread!  I did a google search of Faraag Allah & found him in Germany, although I don't speak German & the website is in German!  Anyway he's a long way from me, a 15 hour drive infact, a shame as he looks very nice & athletic as you suggested!  I'll pm you the website address.  Another question re some of the Pritzlaff horses, some aren't classed as SE due to Rabanna (part of the crazy create & maintain policy if I understand correctly!), in the US has this had an effect on people not breeding this bloodline, as they can't get the SE label?  Just curious what if any implications there are not having the SE label?

[sheikh rissan]

Hi Rosie
I speak German, and can translate whatever you want to know.  No problem :-)
It looks very nice, the shooting estate where they keep Faraag Allah..   It's between Berlin and Hamburg..

I know that Pam would like someone to go and see him..... I should try and do that, and I'm in Berlin in March, but it would be do-able (just) if expensive.. I wonder if Anita (the owner) would be happy for that...  I can ask.

http://www.jagdschlo...hp?faraag_allah

[Rosie]

Hi Sheikh Rissan, thanks for the offer of translation but I managed to get the gist of things (with the use of google translations lol!).  It would be great if you could have the chance to go & see Faarag & let us know your thoughts on him!  It's just too far for me & would be an expensive journey too, I need to win the lotto!!

[sheikh rissan]

Hiya Rosie
No problem :-)  My name's actually Julia
Sheikh Rissan was my old grey stallion (in my Avatar)..  whereabouts are you in France?
I come to Paris a few times a year, and spent 2 weeks about an hour from Arcachon last summer

Julia

[Rosie]

Hi Julia, I'm in Brittany, roughly 5 hours drive from Paris, a shame as it'd of been nice to meet up!  Did you get my private message?
Claire (Rosies my cat lol!).