321 replies to this topic

[diane]

Aimbri, on 03 November 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

Although I'm always reluctant to agree with Ray . . . (LOL) . . . sometimes I just have to.

You can plan breedings . . . doing the best you can, breeding your best to the best match you can find, but . . . as Ray says . . . it is still just a crapshoot.  What you get . . . what the foal turns out like . . . it's the luck of the draw.  You can do things to increase the odds that the resulting foal may be more to your liking, ie . . . breed to lines that you prefer, but . . . unfortunately . . . it's still a crapshoot.

But then . . . if everything were guaranteed, it would take some of the joy, excitement and anticipation out of it.  And the fantastic sense of accomplishment when a breeding turns out the way you had hoped.  The foal is what you have hoped for . . . . etc., etc.  That is all part of the joy of breeding.

yep, all the hard yakka that we (as breeders) feel are worthy of mention are quite often overlooked by many others.  It's how the selection or non-selection is done - what that selection is based on/compared to is the concern - particularly for the Arabian if it is to retain its originality.

[LPA]

Interesting topic.  It would be great if all breeders had the room to keep their colts for a number of years to see what they grew into before making a decision to geld certain ones.  But then with the monopoly that is genetics, who's to say the "not so glamorous and full of himself colt" isn't going to be the better sire than the one that seems to have it all?  It's a true gamble, but still I find it a fun one.  I have two colts here at the moment.  Both will stay colts.  One is the very best we have bred, and is quite hard to fault.  The other is a nice colt who has correct conformation, nice showy movement, but is not as confident in himself, and hangs at the back of the herd.  A visitor already suggested he's a gelding to me, but, (sigh), he has a bloodline that boasts some lovely old horses that are hard to come by now.  And with no Minstril, no Simeon, and very little Ansata lines, he's going to be worth his weight in gold to outcross to.  Time will tell.  It's a game of patience, commitment, determination, and an unwavering belief in what you're doing.  I read somewhere that "stallions are horses first."  That one little phrase nails everything I believe.  If a colt is not characteristic of a quality riding horse FIRST, then maybe one needs to go back to the drawing board before trying that breeding again?  Anyway, great topic, and thoroughly enjoying the read.
Lisa
Lavender Park.

[Karen Page]

LPA, on 06 November 2011 - 05:25 AM, said:

If a colt is not characteristic of a quality riding horse FIRST, then maybe one needs to go back to the drawing board before trying that breeding again?  
Lisa
Lavender Park.

Lisa, those are words to live by for sure.  If my colts aren't easy to handle as stallions, then they get gelded.  I don't care how wonderful they are otherwise, if "nice, quiet riding horse" isn't in their future as a stallion, then they get gelded!  A horse can be a nice quiet riding horse and be a showy performance horse when asked.  They are not mutually exclusive.
Ibn Rafiq went to the trainers for his intro to saddle work and the trainer had to check for himself to see that he was intact and not a gelding.  He was that quiet.  He LOVED him.  That's what I produce.  Horses that impress even professional, non-Arab horse people.  The bonus is that he could easy win in sport horse in hand, maybe main ring halter with the right trainer (not me!)

[desertrat]

Karen Page, on 06 November 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:

Lisa, those are words to live by for sure.  If my colts aren't easy to handle as stallions, then they get gelded.  I don't care how wonderful they are otherwise, if "nice, quiet riding horse" isn't in their future as a stallion, then they get gelded!  A horse can be a nice quiet riding horse and be a showy performance horse when asked.  They are not mutually exclusive.
Ibn Rafiq went to the trainers for his intro to saddle work and the trainer had to check for himself to see that he was intact and not a gelding.  He was that quiet.  He LOVED him.  That's what I produce.  Horses that impress even professional, non-Arab horse people.  The bonus is that he could easy win in sport horse in hand, maybe main ring halter with the right trainer (not me!)

Amen!

[DKZ]

I am probably going to regret this because a poet I am not.  I wrote this a while ago with my thoughts on breeding.

From Foals Yet to be Born

Don't breed me for color, for my spirit has none,
Color has no bearing on what I will or have done.
Don't breed me for a long neck for balance I lack,
For my loin it doth lengthen and weaken my back.
Don't breed me with no regard to sound legs and the like,
They must carry the load for the rest of my life.
But breed me for soundness not fads I disdain,
So as old age nears, I enter without pain.
So my body and mind serve you in my twilight years,
Please breed me carefully, oh one I'll hold dear,
You will be my master, and I not just beast,
I'll be loyal to you, I deserve this at least.©2011

[desertrat]

DKZ, on 07 November 2011 - 06:28 PM, said:

I am probably going to regret this because a poet I am not.  I wrote this a while ago with my thoughts on breeding.

From Foals Yet to be Born

Don't breed me for color, for my spirit has none,
Color has no bearing on what I will or have done.
Don't breed me for a long neck for balance I lack,
For my loin it doth lengthen and weaken my back.
Don't breed me with no regard to sound legs and the like,
They must carry the load for the rest of my life.
But breed me for soundness not fads I disdain,
So as old age nears, I enter without pain.
So my body and mind serve you in my twilight years,
Please breed me carefully, oh one I'll hold dear,
You will be my master, and I not just beast,
I'll be loyal to you, I deserve this at least.©2011

Bravo!

[AA Wish]

DKZ, on 07 November 2011 - 06:28 PM, said:

I am probably going to regret this because a poet I am not.  I wrote this a while ago with my thoughts on breeding.

From Foals Yet to be Born

Don't breed me for color, for my spirit has none,
Color has no bearing on what I will or have done.
Don't breed me for a long neck for balance I lack,
For my loin it doth lengthen and weaken my back.
Don't breed me with no regard to sound legs and the like,
They must carry the load for the rest of my life.
But breed me for soundness not fads I disdain,
So as old age nears, I enter without pain.
So my body and mind serve you in my twilight years,
Please breed me carefully, oh one I'll hold dear,
You will be my master, and I not just beast,
I'll be loyal to you, I deserve this at least.©2011

Very good!

[mistuarabians]

If a colt is not characteristic of a quality riding horse FIRST, then maybe one needs to go back to the drawing board before trying that breeding again?
Lisa
Lavender Park.


How would the large farms that attract so many with the tax advantages ever survive?

Tom

[desertrat]

mistuarabians, on 07 November 2011 - 11:38 PM, said:

If a colt is not characteristic of a quality riding horse FIRST, then maybe one needs to go back to the drawing board before trying that breeding again?
Lisa
Lavender Park.


How would the large farms that attract so many with the tax advantages ever survive?

Tom

And in what way would THAT be a problem?

[Karen Page]

mistuarabians, on 07 November 2011 - 11:38 PM, said:

If a colt is not characteristic of a quality riding horse FIRST, then maybe one needs to go back to the drawing board before trying that breeding again?
Lisa
Lavender Park.


How would the large farms that attract so many with the tax advantages ever survive?

Tom

Well, they could simply try a different cross.  I have two mature stallions and a 2 year old who promises to be a world beater.  That gives me 3 chances per mare to see what they can produce.  That's at least 4 years, depending on whether or not I breed every year.  Even longer if you train each one to ride before casting final judgement on that cross.  Of course, that presumes that you actually train each one to ride, which is, IMO the reason for producing them anyway.  I know, not everyone thinks that way.  Every horse that I have raised, that is over 3 years old, is under saddle right now.  Both mature stallions are ridable.  The mares are another story all together.

I've attached Habib Rafiq and my daughter.  She rides him and also plays in his pasture.  He's the standard I hold my babies to.

Karen

Attached Files

•  rafi_lisa_crpd.jpg   91.91K   2 downloads

[AA Wish]

Karen Page, on 08 November 2011 - 01:28 AM, said:

Well, they could simply try a different cross.  I have two mature stallions and a 2 year old who promises to be a world beater.  That gives me 3 chances per mare to see what they can produce.  That's at least 4 years, depending on whether or not I breed every year.  Even longer if you train each one to ride before casting final judgement on that cross.  Of course, that presumes that you actually train each one to ride, which is, IMO the reason for producing them anyway.  I know, not everyone thinks that way.  Every horse that I have raised, that is over 3 years old, is under saddle right now.  Both mature stallions are ridable.  The mares are another story all together.

I've attached Habib Rafiq and my daughter.  She rides him and also plays in his pasture.  He's the standard I hold my babies to.

Karen

That is a wonderful picture!

[Kat]

Deb, your poem was great !!!!
Karen, nice boy!!!!

[Karen Page]

AA Wish, on 08 November 2011 - 03:18 AM, said:

That is a wonderful picture!

Thanks!

This one is Lisa and Saalisha.  Saalisha is by Habib Rafiq and out of DHAR Saalima SE/AK/SO, who was never registered by her breeder.  She has promised that she will sign the paperwork for me, but doesn't ever get around to it.  I have sent her two copies already.  I'm thinking road trip to Mena, AR, but not sure when I'll have the time!

 Saalisha 3.jpg   718.71K   2 downloads

Karen

[Karen Page]

Kat, on 08 November 2011 - 10:10 PM, said:

Deb, your poem was great !!!!
Karen, nice boy!!!!

Thanks Kat!

And Deb, Enjoyed the poem!

Karen

[diane]

DKZ, on 07 November 2011 - 06:28 PM, said:

I am probably going to regret this because a poet I am not.  I wrote this a while ago with my thoughts on breeding.

From Foals Yet to be Born

Don't breed me for color, for my spirit has none,
Color has no bearing on what I will or have done.
Don't breed me for a long neck for balance I lack,
For my loin it doth lengthen and weaken my back.
Don't breed me with no regard to sound legs and the like,
They must carry the load for the rest of my life.
But breed me for soundness not fads I disdain,
So as old age nears, I enter without pain.
So my body and mind serve you in my twilight years,
Please breed me carefully, oh one I'll hold dear,
You will be my master, and I not just beast,
I'll be loyal to you, I deserve this at least.©2011

[Heidi]

I happen to think I have one of the  best sitting in my back yard, ok two of the best but I don't have pictures of my younger lad.

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•  292035_10150433091403453_582273452_10263422_173764010_n.jpg   152.95K   3 downloads

[razgold]

he's nice Heidi what's his name?

Sue

[Heidi]

That's Sihr his younger half sibling is grey but still very black with a grey face so not the easiest to photograph.

[Angella]

I think I may have found the stallion to produce the best colt in the world with BB.  Hopefully within the next couple of weeks I can make the announcement.  

This is one I want for my herd... hopefully as an eventual replacement for BB... but I'm good with a colt from this one too.

[Ray]

Phoenix, on 03 November 2011 - 03:36 AM, said:

I just took a look at Ray's site and dang what a great collection of super colts he has!

I wouldn't mind having one of those boys in my barn someday.

Thanks Lisa.  Naturally, I agree...