185 replies to this topic

[Nasser]

I agree with Ray. That is Gharib (Anter x Souhair). Ibn Rabdan appears four times in Gharib's pedigree as the sire of Hamdan, Bint Bint Dalal, Layla & Salwa.

[JFerriss]

Nasser, on 21 December 2011 - 07:20 AM, said:

I agree with Ray. That is Gharib (Anter x Souhair). Ibn Rabdan appears four times in Gharib's pedigree as the sire of Hamdan, Bint Bint Dalal, Layla & Salwa.

Yes Ray and Nasser, this is Gharib. This photo is one not seen before but I like it for conformational purposes as he is known to be an excellent sire of movement. You can certainly see the Ibn Rabdan influence in Gharib.

When Ibn Rabdan's influence is strong it is quite unmistakable from the point of view of overall body and structure. This was very true of Ibn Hafiza. He was a horse that was never quite photographed equal to the extraordinary impression he made in person. Usually people either liked him or they didn't but if heads are important to one they would miss the real assets of this great horse. His whole body language and movement were extraordinary giving an unforgettable impression in movement. I had seen him numerous times and one time I took and old friend to see him in person when Ibn Hafiza was in New Mexico. This person was prejudiced against "new Egyptian" and "Inshass" in general but his jaw dropped when he saw Ibn Hafiza.

I see that I am going to have to find some more challenging mystery horses to post as members of this site are very sharp!!!

[Ray]

Hi Joe,

Don't worry - you're not making these too easy!  Your mention of Ibn Hafiza prompts me to admit that my first guess on the Gharib photo was El Araby.
So I had to go dig in the pedigree pile to find that El Araby didn't have four lines to Ibn Rabdan.

[desertrat]

Thanks for the wonderful pictures! Please do keep our brains spinning!

[JFerriss]

desertrat, on 21 December 2011 - 04:14 PM, said:

Thanks for the wonderful pictures! Please do keep our brains spinning!

okay, here we go again: another mystery horse.

This stallion had a full sister and three quarter sister that were imported to America. Another three quarter sister and three quarter brother went to Germany.  But this stallion went somewhere else.
Any guesses?

 Bm14.jpg   73.73K   5 downloads

[Ray]

Well, let's see what we've got to go on.  Looks like the tippy ear "syndrome", for one thing.  Would it be a waste of time to dump out the Venus bucket and see what turns up?  

[JFerriss]

Ray, on 21 December 2011 - 08:18 PM, said:

Well, let's see what we've got to go on.  Looks like the tippy ear "syndrome", for one thing.  Would it be a waste of time to dump out the Venus bucket and see what turns up?  

Well, Ray, this stallion is not tail female to Venus if that is your implication. She's in there several times but not in tail female.

[Aimbri]

Joe . . . I don't know who he is, but from this angle I don't see the tremendous laid back shoulder that the Nazeer get were known for . . .  so I would suspect NOT of that breeding???

[JFerriss]

Aimbri, on 21 December 2011 - 11:34 PM, said:

Joe . . . I don't know who he is, but from this angle I don't see the tremendous laid back shoulder that the Nazeer get were known for . . .  so I would suspect NOT of that breeding???

This horse's grandsire is Nazeer. Keep in mind that this photo was likely taken when this stallion was 2 or 3 years old so still immature. The photo was taken in his country of origin not his destination country.

[Aimbri]

So . . . his dam is a Nazeer daughter? . . . . Sire is non-Nazeer?

[JFerriss]

Aimbri, on 22 December 2011 - 04:43 PM, said:

So . . . his dam is a Nazeer daughter? . . . . Sire is non-Nazeer?

Other way around. Sire is a Nazeer son.

[JFerriss]

Want more clues? Mystery horse sired only one SE son. However that son was heavily used by the importer of this mystery horse. This mystery horse has grandsons who were imported to the U.S. and Canada but they are not SE.

[calicoarab52]

Shaker El Masri? (not sure if I spelled it right)

[M Huprich]

I loved Ibn Hafiza - and even more when I saw him in person.  What a cool horse!

[hansi]

JFerriss, on 21 December 2011 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nasser, on 21 December 2011 - 07:20 AM, said:

I agree with Ray. That is Gharib (Anter x Souhair). Ibn Rabdan appears four times in Gharib's pedigree as the sire of Hamdan, Bint Bint Dalal, Layla & Salwa.

Yes Ray and Nasser, this is Gharib. This photo is one not seen before but I like it for conformational purposes as he is known to be an excellent sire of movement. You can certainly see the Ibn Rabdan influence in Gharib. When Ibn Rabdan's influence is strong it is quite unmistakable from the point of view of overall body and structure. This was very true of Ibn Hafiza. He was a horse that was never quite photographed equal to the extraordinary impression he made in person. Usually people either liked him or they didn't but if heads are important to one they would miss the real assets of this great horse. His whole body language and movement were extraordinary giving an unforgettable impression in movement. I had seen him numerous times and one time I took and old friend to see him in person when Ibn Hafiza was in New Mexico. This person was prejudiced against "new Egyptian" and "Inshass" in general but his jaw dropped when he saw Ibn Hafiza. I see that I am going to have to find some more challenging mystery horses to post as members of this site are very sharp!!!

Dear Joe
It often saddens me when GREAT HORSES are overlooked, sometimes shunned, because they have a true=blue 'DESERT HEAD' rather than a "pikehead". Another example is BAHIm HISAN, an absolutely outstanding stallion, carrying the pricelss "Mashhour" (1941) blood through his par-exellant dam, who was in my quarantine for over two months in 1970. These horses were extremely athletic and looked like Desertbreds in my eyes, they were beautiful..

While excellent endurance horses/bloodlines are in high demand, one should take a serious look at the offspring of these great stallions Ibn Hafiza, Gharib and Bahim Hisan. those who have these lines might find it wise to test those horses for speed,stamina and recover rating and get a pleasant surprise.

Hansi. .

[JFerriss]

calicoarab52, on 23 December 2011 - 03:04 AM, said:

Shaker El Masri? (not sure if I spelled it right)

nope. Shaker El Masri was a chestnut horse. Lets review the clues again:
The mystery stallion was photographed in his country of origin as about a 2 or 3 year old.
The mystery stallion has a full sister and three-quarter sister that were imported to the U.S.
The mystery stallion has a three-quarter sister and brother that went to Germany.
The mystery stallion was exported to a different region than north America or Europe.
The mystery stallion has several lines to the Hadbah root mare Venus.
The mystery stallion is a grandson of Nazeer [through the sire].
The mystery stallion has only one SE son but that son was used fairly well by the importer of the mystery stallion.
Two grandsons of the mystery stallion were imported to North America [1 in US, 1 in Canada] but they are not SE

[JFerriss]

hansi, on 23 December 2011 - 01:52 PM, said:

JFerriss, on 21 December 2011 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nasser, on 21 December 2011 - 07:20 AM, said:

I agree with Ray. That is Gharib (Anter x Souhair). Ibn Rabdan appears four times in Gharib's pedigree as the sire of Hamdan, Bint Bint Dalal, Layla & Salwa.

Yes Ray and Nasser, this is Gharib. This photo is one not seen before but I like it for conformational purposes as he is known to be an excellent sire of movement. You can certainly see the Ibn Rabdan influence in Gharib. When Ibn Rabdan's influence is strong it is quite unmistakable from the point of view of overall body and structure. This was very true of Ibn Hafiza. He was a horse that was never quite photographed equal to the extraordinary impression he made in person. Usually people either liked him or they didn't but if heads are important to one they would miss the real assets of this great horse. His whole body language and movement were extraordinary giving an unforgettable impression in movement. I had seen him numerous times and one time I took and old friend to see him in person when Ibn Hafiza was in New Mexico. This person was prejudiced against "new Egyptian" and "Inshass" in general but his jaw dropped when he saw Ibn Hafiza. I see that I am going to have to find some more challenging mystery horses to post as members of this site are very sharp!!!

Dear Joe
It often saddens me when GREAT HORSES are overlooked, sometimes shunned, because they have a true=blue 'DESERT HEAD' rather than a "pikehead". Another example is BAHIm HISAN, an absolutely outstanding stallion, carrying the pricelss "Mashhour" (1941) blood through his par-exellant dam, who was in my quarantine for over two months in 1970. These horses were extremely athletic and looked like Desertbreds in my eyes, they were beautiful..

While excellent endurance horses/bloodlines are in high demand, one should take a serious look at the offspring of these great stallions Ibn Hafiza, Gharib and Bahim Hisan. those who have these lines might find it wise to test those horses for speed,stamina and recover rating and get a pleasant surprise.

Hansi. .

Yes Hansi I agree.  Bahim Hisan was another great one. I fell in love with his dam when I saw her. A true desert war mare. And of course I can still see Ibn Hafiza in my head. To me he was magnificent though not in vogue at the time.

[Aimbri]

JFerriss, on 23 December 2011 - 03:53 PM, said:

calicoarab52, on 23 December 2011 - 03:04 AM, said:

Shaker El Masri? (not sure if I spelled it right)

nope. Shaker El Masri was a chestnut horse. Lets review the clues again:
The mystery stallion was photographed in his country of origin as about a 2 or 3 year old.
The mystery stallion has a full sister and three-quarter sister that were imported to the U.S.
The mystery stallion has a three-quarter sister and brother that went to Germany.
The mystery stallion was exported to a different region than north America or Europe.
The mystery stallion has several lines to the Hadbah root mare Venus.
The mystery stallion is a grandson of Nazeer [through the sire].
The mystery stallion has only one SE son but that son was used fairly well by the importer of the mystery stallion.
Two grandsons of the mystery stallion were imported to North America [1 in US, 1 in Canada] but they are not SE

Obviously . . . we need MORE clues, Joe!

[JFerriss]

Aimbri, on 23 December 2011 - 11:13 PM, said:

JFerriss, on 23 December 2011 - 03:53 PM, said:

calicoarab52, on 23 December 2011 - 03:04 AM, said:

Shaker El Masri? (not sure if I spelled it right)

nope. Shaker El Masri was a chestnut horse. Lets review the clues again:
The mystery stallion was photographed in his country of origin as about a 2 or 3 year old.
The mystery stallion has a full sister and three-quarter sister that were imported to the U.S.
The mystery stallion has a three-quarter sister and brother that went to Germany.
The mystery stallion was exported to a different region than north America or Europe.
The mystery stallion has several lines to the Hadbah root mare Venus.
The mystery stallion is a grandson of Nazeer [through the sire].
The mystery stallion has only one SE son but that son was used fairly well by the importer of the mystery stallion.
Two grandsons of the mystery stallion were imported to North America [1 in US, 1 in Canada] but they are not SE

Obviously . . . we need MORE clues, Joe!

I know this one is tricky but I was under the impression that Ray and Nasser wanted something challenging so I chose this mystery horse.

So here are some more clues. He traces to Moniet El Nefous through both his sire and dam. Now weigh this against the previous clues and see what you might come up with. It may take some looking through references because he is not as famous as his related siblings but his importer is very prominent as an Arabian breeder.

[Ray]

It's a tough one, Joe, even with "resources" - LOL!  I have been on the trail of Moniet El Nefous, due to the relatedness of the four horses imported to the US and Germany.  The tricky part is country of origin, which could be the US.  Anyway, I figure he might be a *Morafic son, but there are a BUNCH of those to research.