46 replies to this topic

[Joelynn]

Hello all.  Here is an email received today from Dr. Hudson:  (sounds interesting)  (am unable to attach the two docs he sent but am sure if your email him he can send it to you.



Hi Joelyn
I have finished the DNA study that you helped with, and the final results have been analyzed by a statistician at UGA. He recommends expanding the number of horses in the study to clarify some very unusual findings that have come to light. Therefore I am looking for more horses, male or female, of Egyptian tail female lines. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks
Dr. Hudson

William M. Hudson, M.D.,F.A.C.C., P.C.
Cardiology
1400 Northside Forsyth Drive
Suite 290
Cumming, Georgia 30041
Phone: 770- 887-0472
fax: 770- 887-1105
email: whudson@whudsoncardiology.com

[Nadj Al Nur]

Joelynn.....if you can't attach them, can you forward them, if I PM you with my email addy? It DOES sound interesting, and I have a couple of horses in that study....
Cathy

[Joelynn]

Feel free to email me direct and I can forward the entire email message.  joelynnld@yahoo.com  thank you!

[VanAlma]

Do they have any specific female lines they are looking for or are they expanding the search because of multiple anomolies?

[Joelynn]

OK... this copy and paste may work.  The mare lines of study are within this.  (Attachment 1 of 2)



Mitochondrial DNA Analysis and Genealogic Evaluation of  the Egyptian Arabian Horse   {Abbreviated Version}









INTRODUCTION



The Royal Agricultural Society/Egyptian Agricultural Organization { RAS/ EAO} Arabian horse breeding  program { Egyptian Agricultural Organization, El-Zahraa Stud, Ahmed Esmat St., Ein Shams, Cairo, Egypt}  maintains a closed horse - breeding population consisting of purebred Arabian horses.  The importance of this program  is  based in part on the belief that the  horses used to form the  herd at its inception constitute a unique genetic pool,  it that they were considered to be genetically identical to the aboriginal horse  from the Arabian peninsula interior.  Founded in 1892, the   purpose  of the EAO  is to  preserve this authentic Arab horse in its pristine state of blood purity by breeding these  horses  in a closed genetic pool, in perpetuity.



“ The horses bred by the Royal Agricultural Society are the descendents of the authentic Arabian horses imported into Egypt from the Arabian peninsula by the late Abbas Pasha I, Viceroy of Egypt .. and has been carried on  ever since by members of his family. “

“ Breeders and lovers of the authentic Arabian horses abroad are well aware of the fact most of the famous studs of Arab horses in Europe were devastated during each of the two Great Wars and Egypt will therefore  remain an important centre for breeding and preserving the authentic Arab horse.”

H.E. Fouad Pasha Abaza

  Director General

   Royal Agricultural Society

   EAO Stud book Vol. 1  1947    



The EAO  gathered  its foundation stock from  sources of desert-bred horses  with  known  valid pedigrees, all originating from  the bedouin tribes of Arabia. The Egyptian arab  horse ,the oriental or eastern horse,  is unique and distinct among arabs. It is characterized by its  modest size, sculpted gazelle-like head, large dark eyes set low in the skull, hard bones and tendons, arched neck well set on, and a spirited and proud carriage.  Desert lore details the long and often romantic association between the authentic desert horse and the Bedouin, and the Bedouin commitment to purity of the blood is  well known . These foundation horses were considered “ asil, ”   an Arabic term which means purebred or noble.   An asil horse is one  which traces in all lines to pure bred horses from  deserta Arabia and contains   no  genetic material from  horses originating outside the Arabian peninsula.  This belief in blood purity in the EAO stock , held by credible sources and supported by extensive documentary evidence at the EAO  is not uniformly accepted by Arabian horse breeders.  Considerable  mainstream  skepticism exists.   The issue remains controversial  and  is  unresolved..   Some breed  authorities have  asserted  that all desert pedigrees are of doubtful veracity since the  source data  by its very  nature  cannot be corroborated.    Others authorities , like the Pyramid Society USA and The Asil Club in Germany support the view that the Egyptian Arabian stock collected and propagated  by the EAO is a genetically pure  and unique form of the desert horse which is  free from genetic alteration or admixture.  This   controversy  is succinctly expressed by Dr. Hans Nagel  in his book Hanan {1998} regarding the question of pedigrees in the  Arabian horses of the EAO .     “ Thus  not only the pedigree requires a large amount of trust, even the beginning itself is a test of faith and uncritical acceptance.”  There is much truth in  this .    The Arabian horse breeder invests a great deal of time and energy in his pursuit, and pedigree analysis is   essential, having long  been  regarded as the cornerstone of the breeding process.  Loss of confidence in the validity of the  pedigree in general  or the discovery of an  actual error in a long  established  pedigree  will inevitably  have   far reaching effects.



One may believe in the truthfulness of a given pedigree or not , but the fact  remains  that   until recently   there has been  no  scientific or universally agreeable form of evidence that can be applied toward a resolution to this problem. With the emergence of genomic investigational  techniques, a novel form of   objective and scientific   inquiry   can  now being applied to this  old and perplexing  problem.  Modern genetic techniques  can provide an objective   method   for determining   the genetic makeup of living horses  with the goal of clarifying family relationships.  It is now possible to “dissect “the DNA of living horse in order to discover the actual identities  of the ancestors of the Egyptian horse. This study focuses on  the  techniques of mitochondrial  DNA analysis which  can be applied to the question of pedigree validation and verification , providing  a   new  element  in the debate regarding the  validity of  Arabian horse pedigrees.

The first  application  of this technique  in Arabian horses  was published in 1998 by A.T. Bowling et.  al., {J . Anim. Breed. Genet, 115, 1998, p.351-355.}  consisting  of  an analysis of the parentage, long  questioned , of  the bay  Arab mare  Domow # 267 born in 1913.  Her  sire was recorded as   the chestnut stallion  Abu Zeyd  # 82  and her dam was recorded as the  chestnut mare   * Wadduda # 30. This situation  clearly violates the  genetic mechanism of  color inheritance in horses. Either *Wadduda was not Domow’s dam or *Abu Zeyd was not her sire.  The Bowling study used mtDNA analysis to show that *Wadduda was in fact Domow’s mother: her father could not be *Abu Zeyd.

In  2000  Michael Boling published “ A Pedigree-based study of mitochondrial D-loop DNA sequence variation among Arabian horses”{Animal Genetics, 31, 1-7.}, in which the technique of mitochondrial DNA {mtDNA} analysis  was  applied to the problem of  "root mare confusion."   The Boling research  was prompted by a long standing controversy  regarding the  family origins of the Egyptian female lines of Maaroufa and Ghazieh I.   According to Egyptian documents ,  Maaroufa’s   was a descendent of a Koheilan Jellabi mare.  Ghazieh I  was recorded as descending from a Saqlawi Jedrania mare .  However, conflicting historical evidence has suggested and the Boling research has confirmed that these two mares are, in fact, female descendants of a common female ancestress. This means that Maaroufa’s  matriline  was not Koheilan Jellabi but Saqlawi Jedrania, the same female line {or strain} as Ghazieh I.  This  technique of mtDNA analysis has also been used  to  investigate other  irregularities  involving root mare confusion  in the pedigrees of both Polish Arabian horses and Thoroughbred race horses.  









Study Design: This study is designed to apply genetic testing to the validation of the pedigrees of the  15  extant  mare  lines of  the RAS/ EAO.    Questions of “root mare confusion” will be  addressed  and possible genetic inter-relationship between the families { or “strains”} will be examined. The study will also  look for evidence of non-Egyptian  genetic material in the study population.  The Egyptian mare lines to be  included in the study are:

1.   El Dahma, ca. 1879, n.c., Dahma Shahwaniyah, Ali Pasha Sherif

2.   Bint El Bahreyn, 1898, bay, Dahma Shahwaniyah, Aissa Ibn Khalifa, Sheik of Bahreyn

3.   Roga El Beida { Roda } 1882 grey, Saqlawi Jedraniyah, Ali Pasha Sherif

4.   Ghazieh n.d. or.ar. Saqlawi Jedraniyah, Ibn Soudan of the Ruala

5.   Venus {Yunis} chestnut ,  n.d, or.  ar., Hadban Enzahiyah,  imported by Hassan Abu Amin’s Agha in 1893

6.   El Obeya Om Grees, 1925 grey, Abeyyan Om Jurays

7.   Rodania ca. 1869 ch. or.ar. Kuhayla Rodan

8.   El Kahila, 1921 bay  {INS} King Ibn Saoud,  Koheileh Krush

9.   Mabrouka  1930 bay { INS} Saqlawi, King Aziz Ibn Saoud

10.  El Samraa  1924 grey { Hab el-Rih x Bint el-Sheik } { INS} Sheik Omar Abdel El Hafiz, no strain given

11.  Bint Karima 1935, gray, Rasheed x Karima, { INS} no strain given

12.  Hind    1942  grey., sire Obeyan el Seifi,   Saqlawi, {INS} King Ibn Saoud

13.   Nafaa, roan,  1941, Koheila, King Aziz Ibn Saoud

14.   Jellabiet Feysul, or. ar., nd, nc,  no pedigree, from Ibn Khalifeh of Bahrein

15.  Nadra el Saghira

16.  Tahawi mares Folla, Futna, and Bint Barakat

Methodology: Mitochondrial DNA {mtDNA}, unlike nuclear DNA, is found in the mitochondria of all mammalian cells, and is transmitted to offspring only by the mother. Thus, all  produce of a particular mare have identical mtDNA, and the female to female inheritance provides a mechanism by which the validity of documentary and historical pedigrees may be examined. Each mare line has a unique mtDNA signature  which is unchanged over hundreds of generations and is transmitted  from one generation to the next without alteration.

In this study,  blood samples will be obtained from living female representatives of  the Egyptian  Arabian horse families, and  mtDNA will be extracted and sequenced using PCR technology developed specifically for this application. A set of unique genomic signatures or  haplotypes will be revealed, and this data will be compared to the recorded pedigrees.  The results will be used to clarify the identities of the historical matrilines of Egypt/EAO .  This work is being performed in association with Dr. Myriam Belanger, Associate Research Scientist, University of Georgia, Georgia Genomics Facility, Athens, Georgia, USA.





Documentary sources   used in  this  study are the EAO Studbook Vol. 1, 1947, and Pearson, C. The Arabian Horse Families of Egypt, Alexander Heriot, 1988.

Disclosure: This research project is funded  entirely by Zandai Arabians.  The results and opinions contained herein are solely those of Zandai Arabians.  The name “Zandai” is a registered  trademark,   protected by the USPTO 3180476.

[Joelynn]

Attachment 2 of 2

William Hudson, M. D., F.A. C. C.

1400 Northside Forsyth Drive, Suite 290, Cumming, Georgia 30041

Office: 770-887-0472    Cell: 404-213-6177

Email: whudson@whudsoncardiology.com

Egyptian Arabian Horse Mitochondrial DNA Study

    WORK SHEET

Name of Horse ___________________________________________________________________________________

AHA Registration No.____________________   Horse Date of Birth _____________ Color___________  Sex: Mare / Stallion/ Gelding    

Name of Owner_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Address of Owner___________________________________________________________________________________________

Address of Horse at Time of Blood Drawing_______________________________________________________________

Name of Person drawing blood sample___________________________________________________________________________

Date of Blood Drawing__________________________    Time of Blood Drawing:________________________

Instructions:  

1.    HANDLE THIS PAGE AND THE ATTACHED CARD USING THE SUPPLIED GLOVES.

2.        DO NOT remove the collection card from this work sheet.

3.    Label the collection card with:   1)  Horse’s name 2) Date blood drawn.

4.    When you take the needle and syringe out of the package, you will notice that the needle is only loosely attached to the syringe. Tighten the needle onto the syringe by twisting it firmly onto the Luer Lock.

5.    Withdraw one ml (cc) of venous blood.  

6.    Apply  2   drops of blood directly from the needle tip onto the center of each of the four sample circles.  Do not overload the circle with more blood than can be absorbed in 2 or 3 seconds.

7.    Discard gloves, each syringe and needle safely.

8.    Place this page with attached collection card in the plastic bag and return it to me,  using the supplied self-addressed prepaid FedEx mailer



Please feel free to contact me via email or phone if you have any questions. Thank your for your assistance in this study.

William Hudson, M.D.

On the worksheet to be mailed to you the Collection Card will be stapled here

[Nadj Al Nur]

Ah, Dang !! It really doesn't say anything new...............
C

[Seglavi]

Nope I was hoping for more but that is probably wishful thinking.  We have two horses in this study as well.

[Joelynn]

Yeah...bummer and Dr. Hudson probably feels the same way about now....as well as many anxious mare owners (and myself!)  However, science is science.  In order for the study to be absolute and correct, it has to be exact.  If there are things that do not add up, they have to figure it out, find proof, see whats wrong...whatever.  It has me a little more curious now...like...OK... what did they find that they need more test subjects to confirm, or deny?  Which mare lines are in question?  Who is really not a Dahman or Seglawi (whatever) now?  LOL.  Now, I am busting a gut!  Hope he can clarify a little better when I get hold of him, but he may not be able to elaborate.  You know how that goes.

[Nadj Al Nur]

We sure do ! We've been waiting forever for the results of the DI study too, apparently for the same reasons...............Anita.........you can jump in here any time, LOL.........
Cathy

[M Huprich]

Is he looking for more participation in this study, ie more horses?  Sorry it's not clear to me exactly what is needed.  And is it needed for  all these mare lines or just certain ones?

[Joelynn]

It appears that he needs more test subjects.  If anyone has mare lines listed in the outline, certainly he would love to hear from you.  Once I am able to speak with him, I can confirm but it may not be until Monday now.

In reading his email, my assumption is that he needs more samples.  So, if he had only 2-5 samples from one particular line, he needs another 2-5.  In other words, they did not have enough to come to a conclusion.... which makes sense ...as, if you only have 2 samples and they are not adding up, obviously we say, oh we need another 5 to see what is going on here.

Again, I am no scientist ...lol...so ... once we hear from him personally, we can confirm this.

[Roze]

My mare has these lines and I'd be happy to send a sample if they still need some, just let me know

[Joelynn]

Thank you!.  Please email him when you can with the mare, line, your address, etc.

[Jill Erisman]

Joelynn, on 13 January 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

1.   El Dahma, ca. 1879, n.c., Dahma Shahwaniyah, Ali Pasha Sherif

2.   Bint El Bahreyn, 1898, bay, Dahma Shahwaniyah, Aissa Ibn Khalifa, Sheik of Bahreyn

3.   Roga El Beida { Roda } 1882 grey, Saqlawi Jedraniyah, Ali Pasha Sherif

4.   Ghazieh n.d. or.ar. Saqlawi Jedraniyah, Ibn Soudan of the Ruala

5.   Venus {Yunis} chestnut ,  n.d, or.  ar., Hadban Enzahiyah,  imported by Hassan Abu Amin’s Agha in 1893

6.   El Obeya Om Grees, 1925 grey, Abeyyan Om Jurays

7.   Rodania ca. 1869 ch. or.ar. Kuhayla Rodan

8.   El Kahila, 1921 bay  {INS} King Ibn Saoud,  Koheileh Krush

9.   Mabrouka  1930 bay { INS} Saqlawi, King Aziz Ibn Saoud

10.  El Samraa  1924 grey { Hab el-Rih x Bint el-Sheik } { INS} Sheik Omar Abdel El Hafiz, no strain given

11.  Bint Karima 1935, gray, Rasheed x Karima, { INS} no strain given

12.  Hind 1942  grey., sire Obeyan el Seifi,   Saqlawi, {INS} King Ibn Saoud

13.   Nafaa, roan,  1941, Koheila, King Aziz Ibn Saoud

14.   Jellabiet Feysul, or. ar., nd, nc,  no pedigree, from Ibn Khalifeh of Bahrein

15.  Nadra el Saghira

16.  Tahawi mares Folla, Futna, and Bint Barakat

Hi Joelynn,

Of the above mare families, are there particular
ones that you require more samples from, or
do you need additional samples for all of them?

If, for example, all of your samples from El Dahma descendents
are coming back matching the A12 mtDNA haplotype
(as it was defined in the published paper “A pedigree-based
study of mitochondrial D-loop DNA sequence variation among
Arabian horses” by A T Bowling, A Del Valle, M Bowling.
Animal Genetics, 2000, 31, 1-7.)  Then it would make
sense to focus on getting samples from the families that
are not so clear cut.

So to get samples that will best assist the study, which
families are the most in need of additional samples?

Thanks for your efforts on this.  I find it simply fascinating!

Jill

[Joelynn]

Hey Jill.  I just noticed that you are in Indiana?  How close to Hollywood Casino?

Your question is excellent and I forwarded same to Dr. Hudson.  I would ASSUME more samples of everything, but think its best if he confirms that.  Thank you!

[Jill Erisman]

Joelynn, on 14 January 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Hey Jill.  I just noticed that you are in Indiana?  How close to Hollywood Casino?

Hi Joelynn,

I'm about 105 miles from Lawrenceburg.  
It's an easy drive and I've done it many
times going to & from Cincinnati.
Here is a map:
http://www.distanceb...ceburg_in/route

I've never been to Hollywood Casino (I'm not
much of a gambler but I do enjoy a good horse race!)

Jill

[Joelynn]

We will have to meet up!  Are you closer to Belterra?

[Joelynn]

Here is an update from Dr. Hudson:






Yes you are right. The dominant lines have been easy to find, and the obscure line have been very difficult. I only have one example of the Mabrouka Inshass line. So far I have samples from all of the female EAO/Egypt lines, but the statistician on the study has found that, due to the unexpected complexity of the results so far, I need to have two or three times the number of samples in the study, which right now is 66 horses. . I am now looking for any tail female descendents of EAO/Egypt, as many as possible. This includes males , because they will have the MDNA of their mothers, and therefore can be used.
Dr. Hudson


William M. Hudson, M.D.,F.A.C.C., P.C.
Cardiology
1400 Northside Forsyth Drive
Suite 290
Cumming, Georgia 30041
Phone: 770- 887-0472
fax: 770- 887-1105
email: whudson@whudsoncardiology.com

[Joelynn]

another:





There are many issues that are coming to light but the results are only preliminary. The results will be released after the study is completed and published { ideally in Animal Genetics} .
Thanks


William M. Hudson, M.D.,F.A.C.C., P.C.
Cardiology
1400 Northside Forsyth Drive
Suite 290
Cumming, Georgia 30041
Phone: 770- 887-0472
fax: 770- 887-1105
email: whudson@whudsoncardiology.com