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Would You, Could You...?


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#1 Teamster

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 12:40 AM

Breed your SE mare to a non SE but Asil stallion?

Where do you go for an outcross?

I know that TPS considers that SE mares are becoming rarer and should not be bred to non SE stallions, but that is a "purity" issue and I am not talking about non "asil" stallions. Say a stallion from Bahrain, like Jenny Lees does, or a full Syrian stallion.

For just now, let's just make this a hypothetical question.
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Karen

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#2 calicoarab52

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:14 AM

Yes, I would breed a straight Egyptian mare to an Ail, non-SE stallion. I have seen the results, and they are stupendous! The cross I saw was a straight Babson mare onto the straight Davenport stallion Sportin Life. I have considered using Davenport or blue list/ Saudi bloodlines on my two remaining mares, but want to get SE foals from them first. When I had a horse at the racetrack, my trainer had two really nice mares who were about 80% SE, 20% Davenport in training . Again, both were just outstanding quality mare. Both were bred by Red Cloud Farms up in Washington state.

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#3 Heidi

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:51 AM

No

BINT SAFIERA 2000 Bay mare
SHAMS EL BINA 2002 Bay mare
NAKHDA AL SHAIB 2004 Grey Gelding<---- AL
SIHR JAWHER 2006 Bay Stallion
NADEERAH ALIAH 2006 Bay mare
ZAHRAN HAMRAH 2006 Grey mare
SHAMS FIDAT 2012 grey filly SKYLER the 1/2 Arabian pinto wonder horse


#4 diane

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 04:32 AM

Yes, asil is the original as designated by the nomadic Bedouin.

Non TPS (sE) just means that the individual's pedigree don't have only the nominated bloodlines re TPS - doesn't make them any less asil if bred within asil lines.

An "outcross" at the moment - as far away from Nazeer lines as possible and in Australia that's so very hard to do <sigh>

Paraskevas has done well within his own programs by staying with the not so fashionable EAO lines.

Breeding programs with a view for preserving the asil gene pool should be a breeders goal rather than what might win a fashionable ribbon.
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cheers, diane
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#5 Nadj Al Nur

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 06:02 AM

You betcha...........there is a Turfa line stallion that I wish was a whole lot closer..........
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#6 Teamster

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 08:15 AM

  • So Diane, do you think it would be worth our while to talk to overseas breeders to see if any would quaratine semen for our Australian mares? I guess I am assuming other Australian breeders would feel as you do...

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Cheers

Karen

IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING TODAY, MAKE IT SOMETHING AWESOME

#7 Rumonek

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:32 PM

Yes.

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#8 diane

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 08:59 PM

I'm sure there are global breeders who have frozen semen and/or frozen embryos available for Australia of these much revered bloodlines. More than likely (in Australia) there are others that do feel the same as I do. Currently though there are too many impositions on asils to conform to what has become acceptable. As a realist ~ I won't be adding to my numbers at expense of those already on the ground for the pleasure of having more in the paddocks <sigh> :mellow:

  • So Diane, do you think it would be worth our while to talk to overseas breeders to see if any would quaratine semen for our Australian mares? I guess I am assuming other Australian breeders would feel as you do...


cheers, diane
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Is there an elephant in the room?

#9 pucaru

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:43 PM

My first Arabian was by a 100% Davenport stallion out of a 93.75% Egyptian mare: Rafik El Bedu (Florentine x Bint Bint Fadba). He was a wonderful horse, even more so than I knew at the time because in hindsight I took him for granted.

One of the most beautiful, classically Arabian stallions I've ever seen was Dahkhala Sabiq (Prince Hal x Sirrulya), also by a 100% Davenport sire and out of an 87.5% Egyptian dam.

I have pics of these two at home & will post them later.
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Jenny Krieg
Poolesville, Maryland


Lady Fuchsia (Rafik El Bedu x Jasmine CRF) 1991 bay mare, Kuhaylan Haifi
HS Marayah (Hadaya Nile Anwar x Sherlaila) 1998 grey mare, Shaykhah - from Ubayyan Sharrak
Labwah al-Shaykhah (DB Khrush x HS Marayah) 2009 bay mare, Shaykhah - from Ubayyan Sharrak
Ubayyat al-Bahrain (Mlolshaan Hager Solomon x DB Kalila) 2011 mare, Ubayyan - co-owned with Desert Bred Arabian Stud
Sarita Bint Raj (Rajmoniet RSI x Nejd Sahra Nisan) 1998 chestnut mare, Saqlawi Jidran al-Dirri

#10 pucaru

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 04:15 PM

Rafik El Bedu at 6 yrs:
Attached File  Rafik El Bedu 89.jpg   129.47KB   0 downloads

Dakhala Sabiq:
Attached File  Dhakhala Sabiq.jpg   37.31KB   0 downloads
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Jenny Krieg
Poolesville, Maryland


Lady Fuchsia (Rafik El Bedu x Jasmine CRF) 1991 bay mare, Kuhaylan Haifi
HS Marayah (Hadaya Nile Anwar x Sherlaila) 1998 grey mare, Shaykhah - from Ubayyan Sharrak
Labwah al-Shaykhah (DB Khrush x HS Marayah) 2009 bay mare, Shaykhah - from Ubayyan Sharrak
Ubayyat al-Bahrain (Mlolshaan Hager Solomon x DB Kalila) 2011 mare, Ubayyan - co-owned with Desert Bred Arabian Stud
Sarita Bint Raj (Rajmoniet RSI x Nejd Sahra Nisan) 1998 chestnut mare, Saqlawi Jidran al-Dirri

#11 Phoenix

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 04:17 PM

As for myself and my own herd, no I wouldn't. With that said I do also have Reg. purebred mares. I can go in many differet directions with them.

I know of other's who have used their SE mares on purebred and non SE's with good results.

Rising Phoenix Arabians is located in beautiful Chester Mass. U.S.A. in the foothills of the Berkshire's.
http://risingphoenixarabians.webs.com



We are A family dedicated to breeding our Arabians for performance and family enjoyment. Our Arabians are full of type, kindness, versatility, excellent temperament, athleticism and noble intelligence with World Class proven pedigree's. Feel free to contact us anytime, Sincerely Stephen W. Piispanen, Lisa M.Piispanen, Karina E. Piispanen & our grandson Noah Alenander.

We have 5 Arabian mares, our 2 Straight Egyptian mares are listed below.

MB Zareena ( Safeen X AK Shezara)- Dam of two superb Straight Egyptian foals. Dam of numerous X's SHIH Champion Straight Egyptian Stallion Amir Al Ahlam. "Amir" is doing excellent in his new home and competes in many open shows against all breeds. We are pleased to say he is an EXCELLENT performance stallion!  Amir will be doing his first Hunter Pace this coming weekend.

Ali's Zaafinah ( Achaean Ali X MB Zareena)- Dam of Bashyr Ali Safeen, Top Ten Egyptian Event colt.






http://risingphoenixarabians.webs.com BLACK PUREBRED COMING 4yr. OLD DOMESTIC BRED, ( HAS HIGH % EGYPTIAN) FILLY OFFERED FROM RISING PHOENIX ARABAINS.


#12 M Huprich

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:12 PM

For some SE mares, it is very hard to find a SE stallion that would cross well to give a good foal. If the mare is quality, and the resulting foal by a SE stallion would probably not be good - then breed to a good non-se that would give you a quality foal, rather than a dud of a SE foal.

And some SE mares just shouldn't be bred. And if the mare owner is determined to breed them, it would be better to breed them to a non-se stallion to get them out of the se gene pool. But the question would have to be asked - why is the mare being bred and what is the purpose of the foal.
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#13 Kristine

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 09:10 PM

I would.

I think as long as the goal is to make quality horses then it is fun to sometimes look outside of just the SE group. I would, however hope that quality SE mares are given a chance to leave at least one replacement back into the SE gene pool.

Kristine
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#14 Katy

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 10:02 PM

I have a hard time wrapping my head around using a SE stallion on the SO horses even though I know the foals would be better than what I am producing with SO stallions.

SO, although my initial reaction to the question was a YES, I am thinking that when it comes right down to actually doing it... it would ahve to be a no...

I know this is sad but I guess I am too indoctrinated to what I have done for the last 12 years.




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