41 replies to this topic

[Heidi]

Jerel you need to send that story and your pictures to the P.S. the more good PR that we get for geldings the more demand there will be. At a fall show a high percent we're se horses and they did extremely well in all the classes.

[Jerelkerby]

Heidi,
I did send pictures and story to PS and they were gracious enough to post in the last "Chariot". It can be read and seen there as well as on my facebook. Jerel Kerby many pictures there as well and story of the geldings..
Jerel

[Jerelkerby]

Roze, I was thinking about what you siad about the geldings SE Gelding to be specific as they are wonderful.
How about this? If we can talk PS into having a few just regular 'pleasure classes' like our local horse clubs did when I was growing up and have them during lunch and have them judged by someone like you or me or Heidi etc. or anyone else who would volunteer. I am talking about no trainers to train the horses, no trainers to train the riders, (geeeezzzeeee that would save a family a ton of money...now please remember these huge savings as i continue to ramble along here). No judging of who has the fanciest outfit or who has the most expensive saddle. Originality of outfit and saddle in combination with the beauty of the gelding (or riding mare if they so choose)..... the money saved on the lessons, trainers, outfit, saddle could all be put into buying the prettiest, good moving and great disposition gelding they can get. If PS would have classes at lunch would not interfere with rest of show, it could be for kids and adults, western and English....break the kids up into at least 2 age groups. I know my boys would love to do that with their geldings and I would love to do it with my riding mare. We couls all show off our favorite beloved riding horse without hoopla... now washed and clipped would be good...and definitely washed and brushed mane and tail, but clippers etc. can be expensive and maybe make that optional or maybe someone help them clip their horse, but optional without deducting points....use that clipper money on buying gelding...... It could be fun and profitable for small (all) breeders and PS could make some money. Families could come and only have to get a stall for 1 to 3 nights depending on classes they are in (have 2 to 3 luch days set aside for pleasure classes). Families would only have to get room for 1 to 3 nights or however long they want to stay. Also, I bet some would want to maybe then if in their budget hire trainer and take lessons and go into more advanced classes (pinky in the air as I call them), no offense meant to anyone. Trainers might 'pick up clients, these families might want to get further involved with the SE's cuz how many of us started out with just 'riding geldings'?
Also, whoever is in an area large enough and/or has an area large enough have please classes and pleasure shows. Charge $25.00 for an entry fee for a show at your place like that...sell soda's, hot dogs, get on line and buy some inexpensive horse related items... just your imagination and how much fun you want to have.
Thank you for making me think.
Jerel

[larapintavian]

Warning, long, but please bear with me .... I'll eventually get to my point.

I have had slightly different experiences than most people with Egypgtians. In my early years, like most, I looked to the breed ring. I was very aware of MY OWN LACK of riding skills. It
dawned on me that no matter how well the horse was trained (even if it had multiple performace titles), without a SKILLED RiIDER the horse was at a distinct disadvantage. Unskilled riders on barely basically trained Arabs created much of the misconception that Arabs in general were unsuited for most disciplines, especially those outside of breed only competitions.

Because of a lack of funds for either a trainer or lessons, I decided to start Competitive Trail and Endurance, related disciplines where a rider could find experienced mentors, clinics, and schooling competions while rider skills were honed and polished. CTR was most helpful as NATRC, in particular, has very demanding horsemanship judging. My sister's family and mine learned together and we soon were having all family members competing (sometimes as many as 7 of us) all coming home in the ribbons in our respectve divisions .... not only on our own horses but also those belongiing to others. This solidified my belief that a performance horse, to be successful, MUST be piloted by a skilled rider

When my dauqEghter became involved in eventing at age 12, we found that most of he trail skills were of tremendous value on both the Cross Country and Stadium jumpng (especially a superior seat, balance, quick directiona changes, and ability to quickly adjust reins). Dressage was a bit more challenging, and oh so valuable in her development. Again, because of lack of funds , most of this trainig came through U.S. Pony Clubs and their clinics (USPC now goes thru age 24) a SKILL DEVELOPMENT BASED, NOT AGE BASE organization.

We were intrduced to a world where if something isn't right with the performance (and there are no physical or tack problems)
then rider error, NOT the horse, is at fault. There is no sending the horse out for a 'tune up'. There is coaching to determine why rider communication failed ..... Very, very effective

[larapintavian]

Sorry, lost the rest and the tie to SEs especially geldings which are the most valued competitors in the majority of disciplines because of their performance consistency. We need to get those promising geldings into skilled hands and there may be a couple of things that might help nonriding breeders to evaluate rider skill and/or to help unskilled, highly interested, new owners acquire skills. It'll take awhile to reconstruct and type on this darn phone.

Oh, sorry again, but if we were to charge $25 a class for a 'pleasure' show around here we'd not have any entries. Schooling discipline circuits are generally $10 a class with some beginning H/Js charging $25 for a division (two OF classes & 1 flat). Only Dressage may sometimes charge $25, and a schooling Horse Trial (3-phase Event ... Dressage, X-Country & Stadium Jumping) is usually arounud $50.

[M Huprich]

Open shows and riding club shows are a great place to start off and have fun at shows, for little money, and also get people interested in the Arabian/SE horses and geldings.

[larapintavian]

I definitely agree Melissa, however, I think you'll agree that to be successful even at this level the rider cannot just kick and pull. He must know universal leg cues and with sensitve horses how to ride from the legs and not hang on the mouth (contact does not equal hauling on the head). This does not come naturally to many people. I still tend to squeeze with my thighs and ride with a stiffened spine, either of which tend to irritate a sesnsitve horse's back (even with a superbly fitting tack) and cause that inverted, , uneven gaited, head high nose poked out bit avoidence we so often see. Many ammy's, thinking it's a 'head' problem, try to fix the horse with martingales, side reins, and harsh bits. While these things do occasionally have their place, it's NOT to correct the most common problem .....rider seat.

We tend to sell these young geldings to people who have nevet heard about saddle fit, horse anatomy and balance how different types of bits work, that pressure applied to something thin is painful, especially in inexperienced hands, that even a normal sized snaffle can cause pain in the mouth of a horse with a low roof in it's mouth (MANY Arabs) and the simple change to a French link solves the problem

In the past people said send the horse to a trainer, and the trainet kept them coming back ad long as there was money ..trainer doing everything without explnation while rider stayed in the dark. The Arab show community created trainer-dependent 'riders' ...... those perched, pretty automotons that Jerel mentions who couldn't funtion without their trainer or outside the confines of the ring, even after spending big bucks. This DOESN'T have to be the case. There are pdeople whose goals are to teach horsemen, to develop THINKING, independent riders and ways we might be able to use this to help new SE owners who want to LEARN, as well as non riding breeders to develop an 'EYE' and understanding of good horsemanship and how it relates to performance, as well as what a rider really needs in an equine athlete.

[Jerelkerby]

Sharon,
Good points all. I have not been to a 'pleasure show since a kid so had no idea as to what to charge. The $25.00 fee was due to my ignorance at those type of shows and levels, but just a number I threw out there. My main THRUST ANS JEST was DOING THE SHOWS..... and have more venues for people to ride. Even 'pleasure' classes at EE as I mentioned there would be wonderful opportunity for someone like you to give pointers to less experienced riders.
As for me I enjoy trail riding the most with family and friends..... no structure just the freedom of the trails so to speak. I am not much of a 'joiner' and gosh here I want to start a "Straight Egyptian Small Breeders Association" and would want a large tent if possible to include people who do not breed, but own a gelding and may breed in the future. I ride Harley's and have for years and have never joined a club as I prefer to ride solo or with a few, couple family and/or friends. It is the lack of comfinement for me if riding my SE Arabian mare or my 'iron horse' (my Harley).
Back to SESBA ....who would be willing to band together and join? Please discuss with your friends and think about in yourself (meaning all who have read this thread. I do not have to be the President, but will to start it off if needed. I just think we should 'band together' so that more may be done for our breed in many different ways. I think everyone should have a voice and I think the group Heidi is with is an excellent example, but I would like to see it on a National and even International level together. Look at what has happened in the Middle East. In Egypt for example as people banded together for changes and improvement. It may not be improvement in some of your eyes, but to the people in Egypt who took the risks I think it is improvement in their eyes even with the growing pains of change and democracy.
Jerel

[jmarcan]

I just don't understand why more people do not show their geldings open. At last week's Ottawa Area Dressage Group banquet, the five year old gelding I sold to his young trainer last spring won the Open First Level Championship, Reserve Champion FEI Five Year old (yes we have shown him successfully under German international judges and Janet Foy and received lovely comments), high score of the year award and a medal of merit...and he is not the only Straight Egyptian showing on the circuit as the Reserve Champion for Second Level is also SE. Find competent trainers and young riders for your geldings and get them out there!

[larapintavian]

That is so true, they make exceptional competitors, the same thing we found with our E-sired Eventers, both purebred and half, all the way up the levels. But to do that one must have the confidence to move outside the Arab 'bubble'. Education creates confidence. That means knowledge of the skills a horse (and rider) will eventally be expected to perform for a given discipline as well as the level of expertice desired to accomplish within the targeted discipline.

[Romar Arabians]

That is so true, they make exceptional competitors, the same thing we found with our E-sired Eventers, both purebred and half, all the way up the levels. But to do that one must have the confidence to move outside the Arab 'bubble'. Education creates confidence. That means knowledge of the skills a horse (and rider) will eventally be expected to perform for a given discipline as well as the level of expertice desired to accomplish within the targeted discipline.

Sharon,

What's up with your website name? I tried to go there by clicking on your signature but something is not right.

[Roze]

Roze, I was thinking about what you siad about the geldings SE Gelding to be specific as they are wonderful.
How about this? If we can talk PS into having a few just regular 'pleasure classes' like our local horse clubs did when I was growing up and have them during lunch and have them judged by someone like you or me or Heidi etc. or anyone else who would volunteer. I am talking about no trainers to train the horses, no trainers to train the riders, (geeeezzzeeee that would save a family a ton of money...now please remember these huge savings as i continue to ramble along here). No judging of who has the fanciest outfit or who has the most expensive saddle. Originality of outfit and saddle in combination with the beauty of the gelding (or riding mare if they so choose)..... the money saved on the lessons, trainers, outfit, saddle could all be put into buying the prettiest, good moving and great disposition gelding they can get. If PS would have classes at lunch would not interfere with rest of show, it could be for kids and adults, western and English....break the kids up into at least 2 age groups. I know my boys would love to do that with their geldings and I would love to do it with my riding mare. We couls all show off our favorite beloved riding horse without hoopla... now washed and clipped would be good...and definitely washed and brushed mane and tail, but clippers etc. can be expensive and maybe make that optional or maybe someone help them clip their horse, but optional without deducting points....use that clipper money on buying gelding...... It could be fun and profitable for small (all) breeders and PS could make some money. Families could come and only have to get a stall for 1 to 3 nights depending on classes they are in (have 2 to 3 luch days set aside for pleasure classes). Families would only have to get room for 1 to 3 nights or however long they want to stay. Also, I bet some would want to maybe then if in their budget hire trainer and take lessons and go into more advanced classes (pinky in the air as I call them), no offense meant to anyone. Trainers might 'pick up clients, these families might want to get further involved with the SE's cuz how many of us started out with just 'riding geldings'?
Also, whoever is in an area large enough and/or has an area large enough have please classes and pleasure shows. Charge $25.00 for an entry fee for a show at your place like that...sell soda's, hot dogs, get on line and buy some inexpensive horse related items... just your imagination and how much fun you want to have.
Thank you for making me think.
Jerel

I think this may work for people who show now at the EE, but for someone like me who doesn't have halter horses and doesn't regularly attend the EE, I wouldn't spend the time or money to go for just a couple of classes. This would be a good start to hopefully get some of the bigger breeders putting people on their horse. I think to get a broader interest we need to go outside the EE/PS. People who own SE geldings probably don't even know the PS exists. IMO the PS as it is has little value to people unless you breed, that's the only reason I joined. Prior to deciding to breed, there was no reason for me to join. I personally would like to see the PS bring back the Performance Award program and have an extra incentive for geldings. I have been reaching out to people within the organization to see what needs to be done to make this happen. I know that the last time it was in place it was not well promoted. I just happened to come across it when I was looking for something else. They then canceled the program because the funds dried up and there was very little interest. I know of about a dozen people who own SEs and compete but do not belong to the PS. I think we need to start including them and getting them involved, but not necessarily something that would require them to join the PS.

[larapintavian]

Hi Roger, it is daughter Chrissi's site and she took it down awhile ago to redo it to reflect the fact that she is no longer teaching or coaching professionally. She actually regained her ammy status for shows several years ago as, with her current back problems (age, job,family catching her, lol) she wanted to try a bit of AHA and Paint/Pinto showing, something she was unfamiliaer with.

She's shown a bit now and she, the horses, and former PC students riding our horses or horses she had coached them with, have done very well in SHUS, SHSH, HH, and SHIH, as well as Paint Horse EP. Their Eventing training and experiences serve them well in the rail classes. We have NO Dressage or H/J classes in our local AHA shows, so they couldn't show in their primary disciplines here. We took 1 mare and 2 geldings. Another gelding with a former student is starting to get out now.

There are a large number of labeled, dated pictures in my Facebook album of the eventers thru about 2007. There is also apic of Chrissi presenting 24-yr-old *E H Gamil (Gharib x El Garia) under saddle at the AK Convention in Sept., 2012, on the AK breeders Facebook page in one of the albums there.

[larapintavian]

Jerel, when you did those pony rides with your gelding at your son's school, who covered the liability insurance? Does the AHA insurance take care of that type thing, the school, or who? Did parent's sign a realease or what?

We take an Arab along with other animals found in Biblical times ( goat, various poultry, cat, Saluki, doves,etc.) To Bible School every year (usually my SE mare or the big E-sired purebred eventing gelding). They wear costume halter and brestplate. They're a big hit but liability is a constant concern.

[CherylBalmer]

Just caught up with all the posts for the SESBA.  We could certainly host a pleasure show ( that Jerel) speaks of with our facilities.  Also if any of you want to have a place to meet and discuss any of the aspects of this new group we would open home to any of you to come and meet at our farm.

[CherylBalmer]

 I agree that the PS should offer a gelding incentive program and maybe even get a payback program going for geldings in halter and performance similar to a futurity/maturity program with extra incentives for youth and amateur. Instead of cutting the performance division at the EE the PS should continue it and add incentives.  Cancellation of the endurance ride competition was also a mistake.  If payback is not possible ---at least a discount for geldings in entries. 

[Kat]

Jerel, I just read in the arabian horse world about starting this
group and I think this is a great idea. I have been a PS member
since the early 90s and have showen at the EE and had great fun.
I am in northern MN and don't get off the farm much due to working
with older mares with fertility problems. Would love to work with
other small breeders and I think this is just what we need!

[Marilee]

Anything going on to share???  Did this group get any representation at Scottsdale? Thanks.

[Marilee]

The Pyramid Society will again be having their educational/promotional booth at their prime location by the entrance for guests to the main arena at the World Cup here in Las Vegas. Scott Benjamin will be giving a seminar early morning on Saturday, April 20. Anyone coming to the show,....... we will again try to have an Egyptian Arabian enthusiasts get-together for show and tell, networking, and food,,,,,,one of the days/nights of the show. Will let you know what time and day are best for the most people. Thanks, Marilee (TPS member since 1981).

[sdlarabians]

Anything going on with this group?