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#1 razgold

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:00 AM

I'm looking into starting shipped semen with my stallions and wanted to know a couple of things.

 

First don't you have to have a license or something from the AHA to do this? I seem to remember somewhere that you did.

 

Secondly does anyone know where I can get a breeding contract from that I can fill in my horse's name and fees etc?

 

I have looked into having one of the stallions trained, Luckly there is a great place just 40 miles up the road from me.

 

Thanks

Sue.


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#2 jmarcan

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:13 AM

The stallion owner needs to have a shipped semen certificate from the Registry (AHA in the US, CAHR in Canada) and that is where, in my humble opinion, the Registries SHOULD be demanding proof of genetic testing for the stallion in the interest of the overall welfare of the breed...I am not saying that the certificate should not be given to a stallion who tests postive for SCID, CA or LFS but that the testing be done and the results made transparent before a certificate is granted.



#3 razgold

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:44 AM

thank you I will get in touch with them

 

Sue.


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#4 Seglavi

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:55 PM

Info on the AHA website shows that one needs a one time per stallion semen transportation fee ($350), semen service certificates at $35 per mare, and if it would be for international shipping, a WAHO semen certificate ($35).


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#5 desertrider4evr

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:33 AM

Please, for your own protection, do research into whoever you choose to freeze your stallions semen. It is easy to claim you know how to freeze and much harder to deal with the loss of a breeding season. I would get recommendations from at least several stallion owners that have used your "station" and also look into their background and training, ie, what school/training have they had? Any certifications? I would suggest you start at some reputable university or establishment and then ask them for recommendations and see what they think of the "nearby" station. Also, be aware that the individual that works with your horse may or may not be as "good" or skilled as the other folks at the place. It can be a tricky thing teaching a stallion to breed or it can be trivial, just depends on the stallion and the experience/skill/horse sense of the handler. Be sure to visit and watch them work with other horses and note how meticulous they are. Just a few comments and good luck! Semen thats frozen well can keep almost indefinitely so you are creating a priceless legacy for your horse just by freezing him.  Also note that not all establishments use the same protocol-- if you already have a mare that you would like to ship to ask what type of protocol their vet prefers ie size of straws etc. (which may not be an issue but could be- better safe than sorry- maybe they have worked with the local place too and have info for you)  If you check everything out it can be smooth as silk,best to keep the silk.


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#6 Ray

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:42 AM

Hi Sue,

 

Some informative posts here, but they only scratch the surface.  Undertaking the AI process is very expensive, very complicated and sure to be a disappointment in almost every aspect.  I would think that money would be better spent promoting colts produced by your stallion.  In my opinion, AI is a big contributer to many of the problems the "industry" is having today and should be banned.  There should be nothing "artificial" associated with Arabian horses.   



#7 Northwind

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:24 AM

I have never had any problems with AI and what problems the "industry" are you talking about? SCID, CA and LFS where here long before AI was ever used.

The dairy industry has been using AI for a very long time without problems.

"nothing "artificial",associated with Arabian horses", there is nothing artificial about AI, a mare and a stallion are used, just a person puts it in the mare with antibiotics, and sometimes not with antibiotics, so how does this create a problem in the industry. How is this artifical, it is not sperm made in a lab?


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#8 razgold

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:45 AM

thanks a lot for your imput. It's a well know station that have a lot of stallions there and a vet there 24/7 during breeding season. I'm not going to rush into it. I think unless I have several mares a season it's really not worth me going into it. But I will keep my options open.

 

Sue


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#9 Ray

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:14 AM

I have never had any problems with AI and what problems the "industry" are you talking about? SCID, CA and LFS where here long before AI was ever used.

The dairy industry has been using AI for a very long time without problems.

"nothing "artificial",associated with Arabian horses", there is nothing artificial about AI, a mare and a stallion are used, just a person puts it in the mare with antibiotics, and sometimes not with antibiotics, so how does this create a problem in the industry. How is this artifical, it is not sperm made in a lab?

The following is from my post on Facebook:

 

Federico Tesio’s writing on this subject, and much more on the topic of breeding selections and management, is worthy of being regarded as the serious horse breeder’s bible. The book is called “Tesio – In His Own Words”. I recommend the later publication of this book by The Russell Meerdink Company, Ltd., as being the most accurate translation of Tesio’s manuscript. Tesio’s ideas and methodology, seemingly archaic and perhaps ridiculous to some, are the basis for his (still) unparalleled success. 

 

If you've never heard of Tesio, look him up - Wiki has a decent description.
 



#10 desertrat

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:55 AM

It is fact that Federico Tesio believed in the theory of "Elan Vital." His interpretation being that a spiritual value was conveyed during the act of  sexual intercourse between a male and a female  animal .. This "Life Force" theory has also been  advanced and discussed in relation to Human Reproduction .. Tesio believed that a non-conventional method of depositing horse semen in a mare's reproductive tract would cause a devolution to a state more like that of a plant.This theory is an esoteric rather than scientific precept. That aside, Tesio had a phenomenal knowledge of bloodlines and family traits. He also had a great deal of good luck. Wikipedia's page on Tesio is woefully inadequate.


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#11 M Huprich

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:46 PM

Before you freeze a lot, do a test on a mare you're going to breed anyway - use some of the frozen on her to be sure it's viable semen.  Different methods can be more, or less, effective on a stallion by stallion basis.  And while it might look good when thawed, it doesn't mean it has not been damaged too much.  The only real test is to use the frozen on a mare. 


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#12 Heidi

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:58 PM

We had 15 foals at the farm last year and I dare anyone to come point out those produced via AI or live cover.
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BINT SAFIERA 2000 Bay mare
SHAMS EL BINA 2002 Bay mare
NAKHDA AL SHAIB 2004 Grey Gelding<---- AL
SIHR JAWHER 2006 Bay Stallion
NADEERAH ALIAH 2006 Bay mare
ZAHRAN HAMRAH 2006 Grey mare
SHAMS FIDAT 2012 grey filly SKYLER the 1/2 Arabian pinto wonder horse


#13 M Huprich

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:55 PM

I've posed that same challenge (tell me which are ai vs live cover foals) in the past and no one has taken me up on it... 


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#14 Ray

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:15 AM

Well, it would appear that some of you have not read the book.  Even Tesio stated that you can't tell a difference just by looking at them - they are just as beautiful, etc., etc. 



#15 desertrat

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:18 AM

Some interesting facts regarding Federico Tesio- His wife Lydia Tesio was instumental to the success of their breeding operation.  Her social connections led to the partnership with the

Marchese Mario Incisa Della Rochetta in the breeding/racing operation. The Marchese created a notable vineyard in Tuscany and was a co-owner of the legendary Nearco. A comparison of the book published by Russell Meerdink  Co. Ltd. and the one printed by J.A. Allen and Co. says the Meerdink version has omitted two crucial paragraphs defining the meaning of some of Tesio's statements.  . 



#16 M Huprich

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:17 PM

No, I have not read the book.  If you can't tell the difference by looking at them (ai or live cover), then how is he proposing you tell the differences, in order to see any supposed degeneration or impact? 


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#17 Ray

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:04 PM

Some interesting facts regarding Federico Tesio- His wife Lydia Tesio was instumental to the success of their breeding operation.  Her social connections led to the partnership with the

Marchese Mario Incisa Della Rochetta in the breeding/racing operation. The Marchese created a notable vineyard in Tuscany and was a co-owner of the legendary Nearco. A comparison of the book published by Russell Meerdink  Co. Ltd. and the one printed by J.A. Allen and Co. says the Meerdink version has omitted two crucial paragraphs defining the meaning of some of Tesio's statements.  . 

I would have to check, but I believe the Meerdink book was published long after the Allen book, so I don't know how there could have been comments on a work that had not yet been published.  In my estimation, the Allen book was translated by an Italian who put his own spin on the translation - almost like he was embarassed to put in writing exactly as Tesio explained them.



#18 Ray

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

No, I have not read the book.  If you can't tell the difference by looking at them (ai or live cover), then how is he proposing you tell the differences, in order to see any supposed degeneration or impact? 

I guess you're not going to read it, either.  In a nutshell, not a single horse produced by AI ever won a significant race - according to many years of study by Tesio.



#19 M Huprich

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

Well, since AI isn't approved for thoroughbred breeding, that would make sense.   I do not know when the AI rule went into place however. 


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#20 diane

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:40 AM

I'm not against AI (chilled, frozen or otherwise) but not overtly for it either!

 

Poor Tesio, he gets flogged more than the proverbial dead horse at times. :unsure:  The numbers aren't there.  Going by some of Tesio's suggestions

  • why bother with mares - they're weaker even though most tend to be bred AND there are some fabulous performers, even in Tesio's times and more recently Black Caviar (for those who don't know her - she's not lost a race 22/22)
  • why bother with greys - their win records are pathetic compared with solid coloured horses though the total numbers of all colours racing aren't there
  • evidenced by Edward Spinola - Tesio didn't like the force-growing of grass, including irrigation ie Nature knows best
  • evidenced by Edward Spinola - Tesio would send his young stock south in winter.
  • Tesio advocated the removal of the word "instinct" from dictionaries - chapter 14
  • Tesio was quite happy with the use of "sixth sense" -chapter 17

 

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" GDI ...and people's preferences!

 

19 December 2012 there was an unsuccessful challenge to the AI rule here in Australia.

 

Standardbreds have been using AI for a long time.  Their stats would be more pertinent to this sort of discussion re the need for and subsequent reproduction of speed via AI.  Though, like many breeders these days, a singular attribute (speed, looks etc) seems to be the target. 

 

There is an interesting perspective in this article from 2011 about AI (not to deviate away from the original post) :D  After reading the first para, read on from "Whatever the outcome of this legal battle, what are the arguments for and against A.I.?" (about a page down)


Edited by diane, 28 January 2013 - 05:09 AM.

cheers, diane
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